OT 12: Pew Pew Pew

[troyguitar]

Us shit Americans are doing so well in health the CDC lowered the avg life expectancy last year.

[Johnny_P]

To be clear, I intended the comment to mean additional restrictions. I think waiting periods, background checks, and even magazine limits are all reasonable restrictions.

Make everyone that purchases ANY firearm get certified in gun safety, just like those seeking conceal weapons permits.

That’ll create an additional level of accountability, AND, it’ll show red flags easier if someone seeks to subvert those guidelines

You have to be certified by the state in order to operate a vehicle. Why not a gun? Take a simple gun safety course, learn the importance of locking up your weapons, locking up your ammo, using safeties, how to handle the weapon, etc? Attach it to your driver's license so a cop knows to ask if you're carrying today or not when you get pulled over for going 18 in a school zone so they don't freak out when they see a piece and shoot your ass dead?

I dunno, could be a step in the right direction at least.

[troyguitar]

So you think that all handgun deaths are acceptable casualties because you're going to overthrow the US military with your glocks?

I think that all handgun deaths are acceptable because they are a legitimate self defense weapon against personal harm.

Even though they have nothing to do with an organized militia and are more likely to be used successfully as an offensive weapon than a defensive one? Why is that OK?

[razr390]

Become a cop, and lead by example.

Also, I know a lot of your arguments are pulled out of your ass for convenience sake. Most departments have manpower issues, and they have to answer calls. In an LAPD subdivision, one cop I follow told me they had 10 officers in 5 cars responsible for 145,000 people over a 29 square mile radius for 6 hours of an overnight shift. Imagine getting calls for service, accidental calls, welfare checks, emergencies, accidents, etc.

Sorry no one can follow EVERY driver ever and enforce turning signal laws. Just drive defensively and don’t put yourself in any compromising situations.

You CANNOT control others’ behavior, but you CAN control how you react to it.

I'm not willing to risk being a cop in a country full of people with guns... not for shit pay.

Police officers in populated areas (which are, coincidentally, less dangerous since you have MORE officers to assist/back you up) make decent pay i know officers who have been working for 5 years now. Started at 50-60k and now pushing 90-100, without overtime or off duty

[dubshow]

I think i WILL buy that extra gun today.

Then go shoot some paper at the range. The and commemorative.

about all the anti gun talk. I have mine because I distrust the majority of the populace to behave without out the rat wheel of social and economical construct.

The bad guys will ALWAYS have weapons. Total disarming can't be guaranteed. And I also don't trust the asshole doing the disarming.

Thats about it in a nut shell. They will also be kept safely in a hidden secured firesafe. Its MY responsibility to do so. I actually hate teh typical gun owners.

[troyguitar]

I'm not willing to risk being a cop in a country full of people with guns... not for shit pay.

Police officers in populated areas (which are, coincidentally, less dangerous since you have MORE officers to assist/back you up) make decent pay i know officers who have been working for 5 years now. Started at 50-60k and now pushing 90-100, without overtime or off duty

For putting your life in danger all day every day, that is shit pay. I wouldn't do it for anything less than 7 figures, and even then I'd probably pass. 8 figures I'd give it a go for a year and then retire if I survived.

[razr390]

Police officers in populated areas (which are, coincidentally, less dangerous since you have MORE officers to assist/back you up) make decent pay i know officers who have been working for 5 years now. Started at 50-60k and now pushing 90-100, without overtime or off duty

For putting your life in danger all day every day, that is shit pay. I wouldn't do it for anything less than 7 figures, and even then I'd probably pass. 8 figures I'd give it a go for a year and then retire if I survived.

Yet your life is in danger every day from driving.

Also, we all die eventually.

[troyguitar]

Even though they have nothing to do with an organized militia and are more likely to be used successfully as an offensive weapon than a defensive one? Why is that OK?

A handgun is a horrible offensive weapon.

I look at the 2nd through the eye of the time. It wasn't just .gov oppression, it was hunting and self defense.

I think weapons that fit within those second two categories are still legitimate.

These are my opinions. You can't run a scientific proof against them.

So you're not even willing to debate on either and prefer to ignore them? Cool story, you're part of the problem. No surprise coming from a rich white gun toting bro who makes a living from the threat of people having guns everywhere - You're just looking out for number 1.

[troyguitar]

So you're not even willing to debate on either and prefer to ignore them? Cool story, you're part of the problem. No surprise coming from a rich white gun toting bro who makes a living from the threat of people having guns everywhere - You're just looking out for number 1.

Debating the is what I'm trying to do.

You can understand the same set of and still land at different opinions.

You're not trying very hard, willfully changing the meaning of the words in the Constitution as your first step? Come on. It doesn't just say militia. It doesn't just say regulated milita. It says well-regulated militia! An individual with no training whatsoever cannot ever be considered to be a part of that.

[razr390]

In other news, almost time to go home!

[troyguitar]

For putting your life in danger all day every day, that is shit pay. I wouldn't do it for anything less than 7 figures, and even then I'd probably pass. 8 figures I'd give it a go for a year and then retire if I survived.

Yet your life is in danger every day from driving.

Also, we all die eventually.

So we might as well just shoot everyone we see, let God sort it out? does mortality have to do with it?

Why have any laws at all, we all die eventually.

[razr390]

Yet your life is in danger every day from driving.

Also, we all die eventually.

So we might as well just shoot everyone we see, let God sort it out? does mortality have to do with it?

Why have any laws at all, we all die eventually.

I meant it’s kind of dumb to worry about dangerous “day to day shit” when literally ANYTHING can kill you

[razr390]

Might as well enjoy it. Which is why I’d like to explore becoming a cop. It seems like a challenging yet fulfilling career (alongside security). But, that’s not always the case for everyone. You have fulfillment from driving in autoX and playing guitar. That’s completelt fine

[troyguitar]

So we might as well just shoot everyone we see, let God sort it out? does mortality have to do with it?

Why have any laws at all, we all die eventually.

I meant it’s kind of dumb to worry about dangerous “day to day shit” when literally ANYTHING can kill you

Who's more likely to be killed: A cop pulling over angry armed men multiple times per day for breaking "stupid" laws like failure to signal, or a lone introvert minding his own business?

[razr390]

I meant it’s kind of dumb to worry about dangerous “day to day shit” when literally ANYTHING can kill you

Who's more likely to be killed: A cop pulling over angry armed men multiple times per day for breaking "stupid" laws like failure to signal, or a lone introvert minding his own business?

Or an introvert trying to chase down and confront a person for not using turn signals?

[troyguitar]

Who's more likely to be killed: A cop pulling over angry armed men multiple times per day for breaking "stupid" laws like failure to signal, or a lone introvert minding his own business?

Or an introvert trying to chase down and confront a person for not using turn signals?

Which is why I said that they SHOULD be hunted down and shamed, but they are not because GUNS.

Eliminating guns would lead to safer roads!

[razr390]

I meant it’s kind of dumb to worry about dangerous “day to day shit” when literally ANYTHING can kill you

On my average day I spend 0 moments worrying about gun violence. On a bad day I spend a few minutes considering it and 0 moments worrying about it.

Only thing happened to me was after the Parkland incident I was more attentive to anyone entering the building, or the site doors.

[razr390]

Or an introvert trying to chase down and confront a person for not using turn signals?

Which is why I said that they SHOULD be hunted down and shamed, but they are not because GUNS.

Eliminating guns would lead to safer roads!

Until they run you over in car

[wap]

Yea why would you take suicides out of that stat? That's stupid.

I disagree. if one were to say "guns killed 5k people last year" and include suicides.... i mean that technically true but if guns were illegal those suicides would likely find another way to kill them selves anyway.

also that "guns killed" language invokes thoughts of murder, and that's not what the statistic is for.

It's absolutely valid to include gun suicide stats. 85% of suicide attempts with guns are successful. Less than 5% of suicide attempts with things like overdosing are successful. Point being, if someone is feeling suicidal at a home with a gun they're going to be waaaaaaay more successful than if there are just pills or poisons laying around.

Granted, I'm sure jumping off buildings or in front of train attempts are pretty successful, too.

[troyguitar]

You're not trying very hard, willfully changing the meaning of the words in the Constitution as your first step? Come on. It doesn't just say militia. It doesn't just say regulated milita. It says well-regulated militia! An individual with no training whatsoever cannot ever be considered to be a part of that.

And the second part of that is "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"



First we can agree, for sure, it's horribly written. No debate about that.

Second debate we can have is their intent and what a modern expression of that is (where I am now)

Third is "if we write an amendment to get rid of it, what would it be."

Fourth is "how do we enforce it"

Fifth to infinity is "how do we get there from here"

It's insane that you think there is any universe in which the language could possibly be interpreted by reasonable people to mean that untrained individuals should have guns. You're reading into it what you want to read and trying your best to ignore all evidence to the contrary by say "LOL OLD LANGUAGE IS WEIRD"

[wap]

Yea why would you take suicides out of that stat? That's stupid.

how is it stupid? suicide is a victim less crime. Can you victimize yourself?? Is it good? No. But no one else was physically harmed in the act.

murder/violent crimes =/= suicides.

See my post above. They are still deaths that may have been prevented.

And, not to get personal but do you have a family member who committed suicide? It is definitely NOT a victimless "crime".

[wap]

I disagree. if one were to say "guns killed 5k people last year" and include suicides.... i mean that technically true but if guns were illegal those suicides would likely find another way to kill them selves anyway.

This is factually incorrect

[goIftdibrad]

And the second part of that is "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"



First we can agree, for sure, it's horribly written. No debate about that.

Second debate we can have is their intent and what a modern expression of that is (where I am now)

Third is "if we write an amendment to get rid of it, what would it be."

Fourth is "how do we enforce it"

Fifth to infinity is "how do we get there from here"

It's insane that you think there is any universe in which the language could possibly be interpreted by reasonable people to mean that untrained individuals should have guns. You're reading into it what you want to read and trying your best to ignore all evidence to the contrary by say "LOL OLD LANGUAGE IS WEIRD"

you are talking about a time when the average person could not read.

[wap]

i just dont agree with looping into the violent crime stat.

It be like rolling in accidental knife cuts with stabbings.

But it is a violent crime :dunno:

About 43k people kill themselves with a gun in a year.

Statistically, only 10% of people who have a fail suicide attempt try again. Average success rate of suicide without a gun is about 30%.

So let's say that those folks don't have access to a gun.

Let's also assume this second attempts are always successful (they aren't).

That's 27,000 suicides that wouldn't happen without guns. Gotta include that number.

It's way higher I believe.

[wap]

OH HEY. ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM HERE:

Among the more than 64,000 drug overdose deaths estimated in 2016, the sharpest increase occurred among deaths related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogs (synthetic opioids) with over 20,000 overdose deaths. Source: CDC WONDER.

Yes. Those pills are especially deadly when they're thrown at classrooms full of kids.