OT 12: Pew Pew Pew

[dubshow]

but they can take the cry for help option. Pills.

You are lumping all these different reasons into suicide and methods of suicide, which makes your argument invalid.

If you feel people are free to self harm and control their body, then why does the instrument of harm matter??

Because as a society we have a duty to care for the most vulnerable. Mental illness is a vulnerability.

It's funny, I wouldn't advocate for pistol restrictions for a second (and it's not like anyone is using a sporting rifle for suicide), but you guys get so wrapped around the argument because GUNS! you fail to see the point being made.

what does duty for care have to do with guns though? Really.

I just see way larger issues, statically speaking, like pills and drunk driving as more of a danger than guns.

[dubshow]

Well you shouldn't confront them regardless of a gun. You're not a big dude. Fists could fuck ya.

I can outrun any fat fuck who owns a - but not his gunz.

These people NEED to be confronted and shamed at every single infraction, if not actually fucking cited by law enforcement who are too busy hunting for speeders to do anything useful.

hey bud. Have a Budweiser. And hop behind that wheel. You know your're a better driver than that fat fuck. You're the You can drive better drunk then they can sober.

[troyguitar]

I don't think that people who want to die being dead is a bad thing. Similarly, people who die in car crashes without seat belts or on motorcycles without helmets shouldn't be considered to be indicative of problems with cars or bikes.

I do think it's a bad thing that I have to worry about being shot by a driver if I confront them for being a fucking jackass.

You said it yourself, don’t go looking for trouble.

If they didn't have guns, these fucks would be a lot less likely to act like they own the fucking world IMO... and the handful of us who believe in things like using turn signals would feel comfortable yelling at you fat fucks for not doing so without fear for our lives.

[razr390]

Well you shouldn't confront them regardless of a gun. You're not a big dude. Fists could fuck ya.

I can outrun any fat fuck who owns a - but not his gunz.

These people NEED to be confronted and shamed at every single infraction, if not actually fucking cited by law enforcement who are too busy hunting for speeders to do anything useful.

You should become a cop, and then lead by example

[razr390]

You said it yourself, don’t go looking for trouble.

If they didn't have guns, these fucks would be a lot less likely to act like they own the fucking world IMO... and the handful of us who believe in things like using turn signals would feel comfortable yelling at you fat fucks for not doing so without fear for our lives.

I mean don’t get me wrong I agree that people who are high and mighty deserve to go fuck themselves but saying “I wish this person didn’t have a gun so I can fuck them with my words”, makes no sense. With/without a gun, don’t go looking for trouble. No amount of road rage or dudebro running a stop sign is worth your life when you want to confront them. If they do anything to endanger your life, call the cops. Just like any lawful gun owner is expected to do

[razr390]

My general concern isn't either gun rights or gun restrictions. It isn't really even reducing the violent crime rate.

It is making it as difficult as possible to commit a large scale act of violence of any sort.

I don't want to be out gunned after a layoff.

Unfortunately it’s a multip-pronged problem that, equally, requires a multi-pronged approach to a solution.

It is not a black/white solution, as both extremes would like you to believe.

[troyguitar]

My general concern isn't either gun rights or gun restrictions. It isn't really even reducing the violent crime rate.

It is making it as difficult as possible to commit a large scale act of violence of any sort.

I don't want to be out gunned after a layoff.

So you're fine with being shot, as long as no more than a few other people are shot by the same guy?

[Calvinball]

sure, thats a real number and its a sad one, but you have to start from a position that the gov owns your body and therefore you can commit a crime against yourself.

I do not hold that position, IE you should be able to do what you want with your body as long as it does not effect others directly.

Suicide should be legally permissable, the bigger point is that 90% never try again after a failure. Anyone in the mental health profession will tell you because most people that attempt to commit suicide and survive don't want to be dead after. Therefore using something as final as a gun means it has to be brought into the conversation.

I was initially thinking of chiming in with some of this info, however I’m gonna side with the airboaters after thinking about it a bit.

I think discussing suicides right now is actually distracting from what we should be talking about. The discussion started because of mass shootings with assault rifles. A handgun suicide is a very different beast for a few reasons that should be obvious.




Sent from the Beer Depository

[troyguitar]

If they didn't have guns, these fucks would be a lot less likely to act like they own the fucking world IMO... and the handful of us who believe in things like using turn signals would feel comfortable yelling at you fat fucks for not doing so without fear for our lives.

I mean don’t get me wrong I agree that people who are high and mighty deserve to go fuck themselves but saying “I wish this person didn’t have a gun so I can fuck them with my words”, makes no sense. With/without a gun, don’t go looking for trouble. No amount of road rage or dudebro running a stop sign is worth your life when you want to confront them. If they do anything to endanger your life, call the cops. Just like any lawful gun owner is expected to do

You think I should call 911 every time I see someone fail to signal? That'll end well.

Yes, failure to signal ENDANGERS LIVES. That's why it's a fucking law.

[nuggstein]

Of course! I also think that those deaths are attributable to guns so must be included in the debate.

welp, I don't. If someone wants to clock out, yes do it.

We should also make therapy more accessible. The conversation for metal wellness should be more approachable as well.

If both those things happen, and suicide is legal, WHY would the method of suicide matter?? :iuno: I will never agree with you on this until all other options are resolved to teh root of suicide.

Why not focus on more achievable goals that help more people: like BIG PHARMA KILLING PEOPLE WITH OPIODS.

WAY MORE PEOPLE DIE FROM PILLS. Yet you focus on guns...

Do you think that if there is indeed a cure for cancer that the big pharmaceutical companies will stop it? Not that I'm a conspiracy theorist or anything, but I truly think if there is a real cancer killing drug, the big pharma companies won't allow it on the market, and can persuade the FDA and whoever else not to allow it. They own the world. Think about it, no one would need chemotherapy anymore. All of that money...gone. No one would need these other drugs that help relieve symptoms of cancer...all of that money, gone. Maybe a cure was already discovered but no one will know.

[goIftdibrad]

but they can take the cry for help option. Pills.

You are lumping all these different reasons into suicide and methods of suicide, which makes your argument invalid.

If you feel people are free to self harm and control their body, then why does the instrument of harm matter??

Because as a society we have a duty to care for the most vulnerable. Mental illness is a vulnerability.

It's funny, I wouldn't advocate for pistol restrictions for a second (and it's not like anyone is using a sporting rifle for suicide), but you guys get so wrapped around the argument because GUNS! you fail to see the point being made.

I just dont see the point in lumping in suicides in the discussion at all at this point. Its extreme behavior. Like worrying about BDSM weirdos but lumping them in with all people that like to fuck.

[troyguitar]

So you're fine with being shot, as long as no more than a few other people are shot by the same guy?

I'd prefer not to be shot but it's my job. So to answer it as you phrased it, yes.

Err, what?

Why exactly do you think that we should all have unrestricted access to handguns? This is the second time I'm asking for your reasoning on that.

[goIftdibrad]

Suicide should be legally permissable, the bigger point is that 90% never try again after a failure. Anyone in the mental health profession will tell you because most people that attempt to commit suicide and survive don't want to be dead after. Therefore using something as final as a gun means it has to be brought into the conversation.

I was initially thinking of chiming in with some of this info, however I’m gonna side with the airboaters after thinking about it a bit.

I think discussing suicides right now is actually distracting from what we should be talking about. The discussion started because of mass shootings with assault rifles. A handgun suicide is a very different beast for a few reasons that should be obvious.




Sent from the Beer Depository

#airboatnation

[goIftdibrad]

I just dont see the point in lumping in suicides in the discussion at all at this point. Its extreme behavior. Like worrying about BDSM weirdos but lumping them in with all people that like to fuck.

Ain't nothing wrong with BDSM

correct, but apt analogy is apt.

[troyguitar]

Err, what?

Why exactly do you think that we should all have unrestricted access to handguns? This is the second time I'm asking for your reasoning on that.

To be clear, I intended the comment to mean additional restrictions. I think waiting periods, background checks, and even magazine limits are all reasonable restrictions.

Reasonable and sufficient restrictions, as in our handgun laws are perfect as they are? You're totally cool with any and all future handgun-related deaths? Why?

[razr390]

I mean don’t get me wrong I agree that people who are high and mighty deserve to go fuck themselves but saying “I wish this person didn’t have a gun so I can fuck them with my words”, makes no sense. With/without a gun, don’t go looking for trouble. No amount of road rage or dudebro running a stop sign is worth your life when you want to confront them. If they do anything to endanger your life, call the cops. Just like any lawful gun owner is expected to do

You think I should call 911 every time I see someone fail to signal? That'll end well.

Yes, failure to signal ENDANGERS LIVES. That's why it's a fucking law.

I agree that it’s bad but you confronting someone about it and endangering yourself isn’t worth the opportunity cost.

[dubshow]

oh look 38k people died by guns. TOTAL in 2016.
2/3 intentional suicide...

68k died from opiod specific drug OD in 2016

suicide is lumped into both those stats.

yet people run around like the sky is falling.

meanwhile from CDC..

Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
Heart disease: 633,842
Cancer: 595,930
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 155,041
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 146,571
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 140,323
Alzheimer’s disease: 110,561
Diabetes: 79,535
Influenza and Pneumonia: 57,062
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 49,959
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 44,193

guess what. fat fucks of the states united can't be healthy. They have heart issues and diabetus. That will kill the shit out of you more so than guns.

[troyguitar]

You think I should call 911 every time I see someone fail to signal? That'll end well.

Yes, failure to signal ENDANGERS LIVES. That's why it's a fucking law.

I agree that it’s bad but you confronting someone about it and endangering yourself isn’t worth the opportunity cost.

So how do you fix it, allow all perpetrators to continue to get away with it indefinitely because cops are too fucking lazy to enforce laws?

[razr390]

Err, what?

Why exactly do you think that we should all have unrestricted access to handguns? This is the second time I'm asking for your reasoning on that.

To be clear, I intended the comment to mean additional restrictions. I think waiting periods, background checks, and even magazine limits are all reasonable restrictions.

Make everyone that purchases ANY firearm get certified in gun safety, just like those seeking conceal weapons permits.

That’ll create an additional level of accountability, AND, it’ll show red flags easier if someone seeks to subvert those guidelines

[Johnny_P]

Wow.

[razr390]

I agree that it’s bad but you confronting someone about it and endangering yourself isn’t worth the opportunity cost.

So how do you fix it, allow all perpetrators to continue to get away with it indefinitely because cops are too fucking lazy to enforce laws?

Become a cop, and lead by example.

Also, I know a lot of your arguments are pulled out of your ass for convenience sake. Most departments have manpower issues, and they have to answer calls. In an LAPD subdivision, one cop I follow told me they had 10 officers in 5 cars responsible for 145,000 people over a 29 square mile radius for 6 hours of an overnight shift. Imagine getting calls for service, accidental calls, welfare checks, emergencies, accidents, etc.

Sorry no one can follow EVERY driver ever and enforce turning signal laws. Just drive defensively and don’t put yourself in any compromising situations.

You CANNOT control others’ behavior, but you CAN control how you react to it.

[troyguitar]

Reasonable and sufficient restrictions, as in our handgun laws are perfect as they are? You're totally cool with any and all future handgun-related deaths? Why?

My *opinion* (this isn't a win or lose argument, just my opinion) is that with hand guns are reasonable with what I interpret to be within the bounds of the intent of the second amendment.

So you think that all handgun deaths are acceptable casualties because you're going to overthrow the US military with your glocks?

[dubshow]

welp, I don't. If someone wants to clock out, yes do it.

We should also make therapy more accessible. The conversation for metal wellness should be more approachable as well.

If both those things happen, and suicide is legal, WHY would the method of suicide matter?? :iuno: I will never agree with you on this until all other options are resolved to teh root of suicide.

Why not focus on more achievable goals that help more people: like BIG PHARMA KILLING PEOPLE WITH OPIODS.

WAY MORE PEOPLE DIE FROM PILLS. Yet you focus on guns...

Because that's not the debate we are having?

Happy.to have that conversation too. It's not OR it's AND.

fair enough. I'll take the AND. Not to distract. But its WAY down the list of shit to worry about, yet dominates talking points.

Us shit Americans are doing so well in health the CDC lowered the avg life expectancy last year.

[Calvinball]

oh look 38k people died by guns. TOTAL in 2016.
2/3 intentional suicide...

68k died from opiod specific drug OD in 2016

suicide is lumped into both those stats.

yet people run around like the sky is falling.

meanwhile from CDC..

Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
Heart disease: 633,842
Cancer: 595,930
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 155,041
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 146,571
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 140,323
Alzheimer’s disease: 110,561
Diabetes: 79,535
Influenza and Pneumonia: 57,062
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 49,959
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 44,193

guess what. fat fucks of the states united can't be healthy. They have heart issues and diabetus. That will kill the shit out of you more so than guns.

If gun suicides aren’t part of the gun control debate, why are you bringing all this stuff in? Can’t have it both ways.


Sent from the Beer Depository

[troyguitar]

So how do you fix it, allow all perpetrators to continue to get away with it indefinitely because cops are too fucking lazy to enforce laws?

Become a cop, and lead by example.

Also, I know a lot of your arguments are pulled out of your ass for convenience sake. Most departments have manpower issues, and they have to answer calls. In an LAPD subdivision, one cop I follow told me they had 10 officers in 5 cars responsible for 145,000 people over a 29 square mile radius for 6 hours of an overnight shift. Imagine getting calls for service, accidental calls, welfare checks, emergencies, accidents, etc.

Sorry no one can follow EVERY driver ever and enforce turning signal laws. Just drive defensively and don’t put yourself in any compromising situations.

You CANNOT control others’ behavior, but you CAN control how you react to it.

I'm not willing to risk being a cop in a country full of people with guns... not for shit pay.