Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!
I mean... I am far from the target market but it looks awesome. Seems like a no brainer from buying a Model S from a con man that is now basically a CRV or Camry in terms of perception. All of the Tessies look exactly the same so a $100K Model S blends in with the dozens of Tessies now littering every road in any major city.
- wap
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 45203
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:52 pm
- Drives: Blue Meanie
- Location: Pepperland
I quoted this last night:Detroit wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:39 amWhat remains to be seen is how many s are willing to drop $100k+ on these things. Sure they look great, they HAVE to for that price. But to build an entirely new plant to produce 20k units per year is an epic waste, profitability is at best.wap wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:32 am One thing I think Lucid has going for it, per the article I posted above, is the fact that it built a brand new factory that is staffed with former auto manufacturing people with decades of experience.
From said article. Italics are mine:
It remains to be seen, of course, if they make a go of it, and what they're saying may end being a bunch of . But damn, this is a handsome car, much better looking than a Model 3, imo.
Curious what other value oriented products in the pipeline will actually see production. Or maybe cars will just be for the rich.
There's also an SUV scheduled for 2023.Obviously, six-figure luxury sedans aren’t a growth industry. So they’ll soon be joined by far more affordable versions, including next year’s single-motor Air Pure, with 480 horsepower and roughly 406 miles of range for $78,900. That’s about $12,000 less than a Model S Long Range, or $24,000 less than a Mercedes-Benz EQS with 151 fewer horsepower and a mere 350-mile range. And that’s for the least-powerful Lucid with the shortest battery range.
- wap
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 45203
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:52 pm
- Drives: Blue Meanie
- Location: Pepperland
D Griff wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:01 pm I mean... I am far from the target market but it looks awesome. Seems like a no brainer from buying a Model S from a con man that is now basically a CRV or Camry in terms of perception. All of the Tessies look exactly the same so a $100K Model S blends in with the dozens of Tessies now littering every road in any major city.
- Desertbreh
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 16913
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
- Location: Beyond Thunderdome
Totally agree. If you are a 100K electric car guy your car needs to say "look at me" and no Tesla does that anymore.D Griff wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:01 pm I mean... I am far from the target market but it looks awesome. Seems like a no brainer from buying a Model S from a con man that is now basically a CRV or Camry in terms of perception. All of the Tessies look exactly the same so a $100K Model S blends in with the dozens of Tessies now littering every road in any major city.
- wap
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 45203
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:52 pm
- Drives: Blue Meanie
- Location: Pepperland
[user not found] wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:50 pmLooks great, IMO. Interior looks awesome.
Shame it's not available as a hatch,
- max225
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 42590
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
- Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon
Doesn’t the hatch look like a cross tour? The new gen doesn’t do much for me[user not found] wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:50 pmLooks great, IMO. Interior looks awesome.
Shame it's not available as a hatch,
- MrH42
- Meat Patty 1st Class
- Posts: 741
- Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:13 pm
- Drives: '23 Lightning + '23 BRZ
[user not found] wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:22 amWell, I've created a monster with the wife. hatchbacks only for her.
Sedans are a no-fly zone.
The woman here has zero interest in driving It's good in that no one drives my car, but bad because we always have to have an auto in the house, and we have to take it if there's a chance she's driving.
- wap
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 45203
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:52 pm
- Drives: Blue Meanie
- Location: Pepperland
[user not found] wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:22 amWell, I've created a monster with the wife. hatchbacks only for her.
Sedans are a no-fly zone.
- Tar
- Chief Master Sirloin
- Posts: 14126
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm
- Drives: Beige Family Sedan sans Dent
- Location: Canuckistan
Same! Except for the part, and it needs to be lifted[user not found] wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:22 amWell, I've created a monster with the wife. hatchbacks only for her.
Sedans are a no-fly zone.
- MexicanYarisTK
- Senior Master Sirloin
- Posts: 10021
- Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:14 am
- Drives: An Okinowa Cruiseship
- Location: 6 miles north of Sleepy Joes House & 5 miles from Bosphorus Channel
But the type R might.[user not found] wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:50 pmLooks great, IMO. Interior looks awesome.
Shame it's not available as a hatch,
Nephew of a a few first gen immigrant on DFD, resident turk, and ex nazi egg lover now driving a middle class mom mobile.
- MexicanYarisTK
- Senior Master Sirloin
- Posts: 10021
- Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:14 am
- Drives: An Okinowa Cruiseship
- Location: 6 miles north of Sleepy Joes House & 5 miles from Bosphorus Channel
agreed, the new civic looks hell of a lot better, both sedan and hatch. Plus the current accord too, the last gen was ok-ish.[user not found] wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:09 pmI mean, yeah, but that's because the Crosstour is a hatchback.
The last gen Civic was a bit too... childish for me. This is how Hondas should look. Timeless.
Nephew of a a few first gen immigrant on DFD, resident turk, and ex nazi egg lover now driving a middle class mom mobile.
Same!Tarspin wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:34 pmSame! Except for the part, and it needs to be lifted[user not found] wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:22 am
Well, I've created a monster with the wife. hatchbacks only for her.
Sedans are a no-fly zone.
- Huckleberry
- Senior Chief Patty Officer
- Posts: 2426
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:10 am
- Drives: 2004 GTO
- Location: Hi. I'm in Delaware.
I'm more intrigued by the new Integra, but I am glad Honda has turned back the Fast n Furious dial in their design department for the new Civic.[user not found] wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:50 pmLooks great, IMO. Interior looks awesome.
Shame it's not available as a hatch,
- Johnny_P
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 40514
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:52 am
- Drives: Blue short bus
- Location: Philly
The hatch certainly has the bubble butt look of the cross tour. The rest of it looks like an updated 2013 Accord. Which is fine but hardly exciting or unique. Seen a few in my hood and they look decent enough but totally forgettable and easily confused with a Jetta.
Interior looks better for sure. Should be a nice daily driver / commuter car. And the 2.slow seems peppy enough given what the cars intent is.
Honda tho. My mom just got an Insight. Rated at 55 city 49 highway and it’s averaging 47.
Interior looks better for sure. Should be a nice daily driver / commuter car. And the 2.slow seems peppy enough given what the cars intent is.
Honda tho. My mom just got an Insight. Rated at 55 city 49 highway and it’s averaging 47.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
Honda is clearly chasing marketing MPG numbers, and not real world. Makes it all IMO, but yet here it is. The brand continues to be insanely strong.Johnny_P wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:23 am The hatch certainly has the bubble butt look of the cross tour. The rest of it looks like an updated 2013 Accord. Which is fine but hardly exciting or unique. Seen a few in my hood and they look decent enough but totally forgettable and easily confused with a Jetta.
Interior looks better for sure. Should be a nice daily driver / commuter car. And the 2.slow seems peppy enough given what the cars intent is.
Honda tho. My mom just got an Insight. Rated at 55 city 49 highway and it’s averaging 47.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
You should. It's the only fun car remotely of interest to me, and most likely the last of its kind. Sports cars will just be for the rich very soon.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
seems a bit of a pessimistic view to me... the Miata ain't going anywhere, the Mustang likely isn't, there will always be used Corvettes, etc.
We're just in a weird valley of car history that is kind of shitty as far as affordability goes with shortages and whatnot. I do think something as raw as the 86 isn't too long for the world
- ChrisoftheNorth
- Moderator
- Posts: 47112
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
- Drives: 4R
Sports cars ~$30k MSRP are just done. Mustang 4cyl, Camaro is all but dead, Miata will be around until CAFE kills it, but then it's just stuff like GTI, WRX, Si, etc and even those are quickly cresting $30k.D Griff wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:26 pmseems a bit of a pessimistic view to me... the Miata ain't going anywhere, the Mustang likely isn't, there will always be used Corvettes, etc.
We're just in a weird valley of car history that is kind of shitty as far as affordability goes with shortages and whatnot. I do think something as raw as the 86 isn't too long for the world
But there's very few sportscars left, and with that will be an increase in used value because there's no new to "replace" them. Indeed hard to speculate now because the market makes no sense, but it'll be very the next few years.
Desertbreh wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
- max225
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 42590
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
- Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon
I can't believe you used SI, GTI and sportscar in the same sentence. WRX barely gets a pass.Detroit wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:55 pmSports cars ~$30k MSRP are just done. Mustang 4cyl, Camaro is all but dead, Miata will be around until CAFE kills it, but then it's just stuff like GTI, WRX, Si, etc and even those are quickly cresting $30k.D Griff wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:26 pm
seems a bit of a pessimistic view to me... the Miata ain't going anywhere, the Mustang likely isn't, there will always be used Corvettes, etc.
We're just in a weird valley of car history that is kind of shitty as far as affordability goes with shortages and whatnot. I do think something as raw as the 86 isn't too long for the world
But there's very few sportscars left, and with that will be an increase in used value because there's no new to "replace" them. Indeed hard to speculate now because the market makes no sense, but it'll be very the next few years.
That is certainly true, but the reality is that many of the "$30K sports cars" are still around and inflation is just a bitch. Mustang GT, Nissan Z car, Miata. The last time there was really something like the GR86 was maybe the Nissan 240SX? It may go away and then people will cry about it and eventually another company will try it out.Detroit wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:55 pmSports cars ~$30k MSRP are just done. Mustang 4cyl, Camaro is all but dead, Miata will be around until CAFE kills it, but then it's just stuff like GTI, WRX, Si, etc and even those are quickly cresting $30k.D Griff wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:26 pm
seems a bit of a pessimistic view to me... the Miata ain't going anywhere, the Mustang likely isn't, there will always be used Corvettes, etc.
We're just in a weird valley of car history that is kind of shitty as far as affordability goes with shortages and whatnot. I do think something as raw as the 86 isn't too long for the world
But there's very few sportscars left, and with that will be an increase in used value because there's no new to "replace" them. Indeed hard to speculate now because the market makes no sense, but it'll be very the next few years.
$40K is the average new car cost, and at that point, you can get a bunch of sporty stuff (maybe this year and its markups taken out of the equation).
Still , the GR86 is worth every penny and more and is very possibly a future classic/end of an era thing, like an S2000 was.
- Johnny_P
- Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
- Posts: 40514
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:52 am
- Drives: Blue short bus
- Location: Philly
It’s probably just the hybrids. Their hybrid system is not good on the highway and really only shines between like 30 and 50 MPH steady state driving.Detroit wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:34 pmHonda is clearly chasing marketing MPG numbers, and not real world. Makes it all IMO, but yet here it is. The brand continues to be insanely strong.Johnny_P wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:23 am The hatch certainly has the bubble butt look of the cross tour. The rest of it looks like an updated 2013 Accord. Which is fine but hardly exciting or unique. Seen a few in my hood and they look decent enough but totally forgettable and easily confused with a Jetta.
Interior looks better for sure. Should be a nice daily driver / commuter car. And the 2.slow seems peppy enough given what the cars intent is.
Honda tho. My mom just got an Insight. Rated at 55 city 49 highway and it’s averaging 47.