Car Talk 5: The Juice is Loose!

[D Griff]

I mean... I am far from the target market but it looks awesome. Seems like a no brainer from buying a Model S from a con man that is now basically a CRV or Camry in terms of perception. All of the Tessies look exactly the same so a $100K Model S blends in with the dozens of Tessies now littering every road in any major city.

[wap]

One thing I think Lucid has going for it, per the article I posted above, is the fact that it built a brand new factory that is staffed with former auto manufacturing people with decades of experience.

From said article. Italics are mine:


It remains to be seen, of course, if they make a go of it, and what they're saying may end being a bunch of . But damn, this is a handsome car, much better looking than a Model 3, imo.

What remains to be seen is how many s are willing to drop $100k+ on these things. Sure they look great, they HAVE to for that price. But to build an entirely new plant to produce 20k units per year is an epic waste, profitability is at best.

Curious what other value oriented products in the pipeline will actually see production. Or maybe cars will just be for the rich.

I quoted this last night:

Obviously, six-figure luxury sedans aren’t a growth industry. So they’ll soon be joined by far more affordable versions, including next year’s single-motor Air Pure, with 480 horsepower and roughly 406 miles of range for $78,900. That’s about $12,000 less than a Model S Long Range, or $24,000 less than a Mercedes-Benz EQS with 151 fewer horsepower and a mere 350-mile range. And that’s for the least-powerful Lucid with the shortest battery range.

There's also an SUV scheduled for 2023.

[wap]

I mean... I am far from the target market but it looks awesome. Seems like a no brainer from buying a Model S from a con man that is now basically a CRV or Camry in terms of perception. All of the Tessies look exactly the same so a $100K Model S blends in with the dozens of Tessies now littering every road in any major city.

[Desertbreh]

I mean... I am far from the target market but it looks awesome. Seems like a no brainer from buying a Model S from a con man that is now basically a CRV or Camry in terms of perception. All of the Tessies look exactly the same so a $100K Model S blends in with the dozens of Tessies now littering every road in any major city.

Totally agree. If you are a 100K electric car guy your car needs to say "look at me" and no Tesla does that anymore.

[wap]

New Civic Si looks decent. If it stays cheap, that's an even better deal.

Looks great, IMO. Interior looks awesome.

Shame it's not available as a hatch,

[max225]

New Civic Si looks decent. If it stays cheap, that's an even better deal.

Looks great, IMO. Interior looks awesome.

Shame it's not available as a hatch,

Doesn’t the hatch look like a cross tour? The new gen doesn’t do much for me

[D Griff]

I think the exterior is clean. I’m not in love with it, but it’s handsome. The interior I do love

I can’t say I really care about the hatch either way, sedans work fine.

[max225]

I think the exterior is clean. I’m not in love with it, but it’s handsome. The interior I do love

I can’t say I really care about the hatch either way, sedans work fine.

Give me hatchback or give me death !
*manuel only

[D Griff]

I think the exterior is clean. I’m not in love with it, but it’s handsome. The interior I do love

I can’t say I really care about the hatch either way, sedans work fine.

Give me hatchback or give me death !
*manuel only

Now the is a hill I’ll die on. Civic is available in manual in a bunch of trims though!

I am honestly kind of intrigued with the manual NA 2.0.

[MrH42]

Give me hatchback or give me death !
*manuel only

Well, I've created a monster with the wife. hatchbacks only for her.

Sedans are a no-fly zone.

The woman here has zero interest in driving It's good in that no one drives my car, but bad because we always have to have an auto in the house, and we have to take it if there's a chance she's driving.

[wap]

Give me hatchback or give me death !
*manuel only

Well, I've created a monster with the wife. hatchbacks only for her.

Sedans are a no-fly zone.

[Tar]

Give me hatchback or give me death !
*manuel only

Well, I've created a monster with the wife. hatchbacks only for her.

Sedans are a no-fly zone.

Same! Except for the part, and it needs to be lifted

[MexicanYarisTK]

New Civic Si looks decent. If it stays cheap, that's an even better deal.

Looks great, IMO. Interior looks awesome.

Shame it's not available as a hatch,

But the type R might.

[MexicanYarisTK]

Doesn’t the hatch look like a cross tour? The new gen doesn’t do much for me

I mean, yeah, but that's because the Crosstour is a hatchback.



The last gen Civic was a bit too... childish for me. This is how Hondas should look. Timeless.

agreed, the new civic looks hell of a lot better, both sedan and hatch. Plus the current accord too, the last gen was ok-ish.

[D Griff]

Well, I've created a monster with the wife. hatchbacks only for her.

Sedans are a no-fly zone.

Same! Except for the part, and it needs to be lifted

Same!

[Huckleberry]

New Civic Si looks decent. If it stays cheap, that's an even better deal.

Looks great, IMO. Interior looks awesome.

Shame it's not available as a hatch,

I'm more intrigued by the new Integra, but I am glad Honda has turned back the Fast n Furious dial in their design department for the new Civic.

[Johnny_P]

The hatch certainly has the bubble butt look of the cross tour. The rest of it looks like an updated 2013 Accord. Which is fine but hardly exciting or unique. Seen a few in my hood and they look decent enough but totally forgettable and easily confused with a Jetta.

Interior looks better for sure. Should be a nice daily driver / commuter car. And the 2.slow seems peppy enough given what the cars intent is.

Honda tho. My mom just got an Insight. Rated at 55 city 49 highway and it’s averaging 47.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

The hatch certainly has the bubble butt look of the cross tour. The rest of it looks like an updated 2013 Accord. Which is fine but hardly exciting or unique. Seen a few in my hood and they look decent enough but totally forgettable and easily confused with a Jetta.

Interior looks better for sure. Should be a nice daily driver / commuter car. And the 2.slow seems peppy enough given what the cars intent is.

Honda tho. My mom just got an Insight. Rated at 55 city 49 highway and it’s averaging 47.

Honda is clearly chasing marketing MPG numbers, and not real world. Makes it all IMO, but yet here it is. The brand continues to be insanely strong.

[D Griff]

The more that time goes on, the more I covet a GR86. I think I may in a year or so, if they are available without shortages

[ChrisoftheNorth]

The more that time goes on, the more I covet a GR86. I think I may in a year or so, if they are available without shortages

You should. It's the only fun car remotely of interest to me, and most likely the last of its kind. Sports cars will just be for the rich very soon.

[D Griff]

The more that time goes on, the more I covet a GR86. I think I may in a year or so, if they are available without shortages

You should. It's the only fun car remotely of interest to me, and most likely the last of its kind. Sports cars will just be for the rich very soon.

seems a bit of a pessimistic view to me... the Miata ain't going anywhere, the Mustang likely isn't, there will always be used Corvettes, etc.

We're just in a weird valley of car history that is kind of shitty as far as affordability goes with shortages and whatnot. I do think something as raw as the 86 isn't too long for the world

[ChrisoftheNorth]

You should. It's the only fun car remotely of interest to me, and most likely the last of its kind. Sports cars will just be for the rich very soon.

seems a bit of a pessimistic view to me... the Miata ain't going anywhere, the Mustang likely isn't, there will always be used Corvettes, etc.

We're just in a weird valley of car history that is kind of shitty as far as affordability goes with shortages and whatnot. I do think something as raw as the 86 isn't too long for the world

Sports cars ~$30k MSRP are just done. Mustang 4cyl, Camaro is all but dead, Miata will be around until CAFE kills it, but then it's just stuff like GTI, WRX, Si, etc and even those are quickly cresting $30k.

But there's very few sportscars left, and with that will be an increase in used value because there's no new to "replace" them. Indeed hard to speculate now because the market makes no sense, but it'll be very the next few years.

[max225]

seems a bit of a pessimistic view to me... the Miata ain't going anywhere, the Mustang likely isn't, there will always be used Corvettes, etc.

We're just in a weird valley of car history that is kind of shitty as far as affordability goes with shortages and whatnot. I do think something as raw as the 86 isn't too long for the world

Sports cars ~$30k MSRP are just done. Mustang 4cyl, Camaro is all but dead, Miata will be around until CAFE kills it, but then it's just stuff like GTI, WRX, Si, etc and even those are quickly cresting $30k.

But there's very few sportscars left, and with that will be an increase in used value because there's no new to "replace" them. Indeed hard to speculate now because the market makes no sense, but it'll be very the next few years.

I can't believe you used SI, GTI and sportscar in the same sentence. WRX barely gets a pass.

[D Griff]

seems a bit of a pessimistic view to me... the Miata ain't going anywhere, the Mustang likely isn't, there will always be used Corvettes, etc.

We're just in a weird valley of car history that is kind of shitty as far as affordability goes with shortages and whatnot. I do think something as raw as the 86 isn't too long for the world

Sports cars ~$30k MSRP are just done. Mustang 4cyl, Camaro is all but dead, Miata will be around until CAFE kills it, but then it's just stuff like GTI, WRX, Si, etc and even those are quickly cresting $30k.

But there's very few sportscars left, and with that will be an increase in used value because there's no new to "replace" them. Indeed hard to speculate now because the market makes no sense, but it'll be very the next few years.

That is certainly true, but the reality is that many of the "$30K sports cars" are still around and inflation is just a bitch. Mustang GT, Nissan Z car, Miata. The last time there was really something like the GR86 was maybe the Nissan 240SX? It may go away and then people will cry about it and eventually another company will try it out.

$40K is the average new car cost, and at that point, you can get a bunch of sporty stuff (maybe this year and its markups taken out of the equation).

Still , the GR86 is worth every penny and more and is very possibly a future classic/end of an era thing, like an S2000 was.

[Johnny_P]

The hatch certainly has the bubble butt look of the cross tour. The rest of it looks like an updated 2013 Accord. Which is fine but hardly exciting or unique. Seen a few in my hood and they look decent enough but totally forgettable and easily confused with a Jetta.

Interior looks better for sure. Should be a nice daily driver / commuter car. And the 2.slow seems peppy enough given what the cars intent is.

Honda tho. My mom just got an Insight. Rated at 55 city 49 highway and it’s averaging 47.

Honda is clearly chasing marketing MPG numbers, and not real world. Makes it all IMO, but yet here it is. The brand continues to be insanely strong.

It’s probably just the hybrids. Their hybrid system is not good on the highway and really only shines between like 30 and 50 MPH steady state driving.