Bad:
I still do not like the dual clutches for DD duty, they shift quick, at the track, sure, but low speeds, there is some clutch chatter, and odd gear behavior, similar to my TDi, and M3. They all “feel the same” IMO. I also can’t say that the PDK is far better than the DCT. They are both great transmissions at speed, shifts are instant either way, but I do have to say the PDK isn’t as violent as the DCT in full power mode.
I don't care for the key on the left side. It is counterintuitive and annoying.
Final Thoughts:
Overall, I think the GT3 is the perfect “weekend sports car” if you can afford it. The main detriments in this vehicle are maintenance/entry costs. I give a solid 4/7 it would be a 5 if Porsche didn’t charge $699-999 for an oil change + if you could get one at sticker without sucking your dealers dick.
:wrong: Soviet car reviews
- MexicanYarisTK
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experience on the porsche. I knew Nissan quality would've atleast be on par with hellcat. After watching a POV drive of the NSX, the interior does remind me of my old TSX.
Nephew of a a few first gen immigrant on DFD, resident turk, and ex nazi egg lover now driving a middle class mom mobile.
- max225
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Yea it was fairly surprising. I would have a really hard time paying 100k+ for this thing performance aside. I mean a C8 seems better inside + No hybrid BS + 20-50k less than the NSX.MexicanYarisTK wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:52 pm experience on the porsche. I knew Nissan quality would've atleast be on par with hellcat. After watching a POV drive of the NSX, the interior does remind me of my old TSX.
man, looks like an epic experience!
I'm assuming the 'LV' shape on the hood is the track layout?
Is there any elevation change or anything? I will probably do this one trip to LV.
Interesting feedback on the car, I guess at that price point you can get a GT3 if you want a car that actually performs the best/is the best quality, other entrants probably feel much more unique and special to be seen in because there are so many 911s on the road, but ultimately don't live up to it.
I'm assuming the 'LV' shape on the hood is the track layout?
Is there any elevation change or anything? I will probably do this one trip to LV.
Interesting feedback on the car, I guess at that price point you can get a GT3 if you want a car that actually performs the best/is the best quality, other entrants probably feel much more unique and special to be seen in because there are so many 911s on the road, but ultimately don't live up to it.
- max225
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Finally you read it!D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:27 pm man, looks like an epic experience!
I'm assuming the 'LV' shape on the hood is the track layout?
Is there any elevation change or anything? I will probably do this one trip to LV.
Interesting feedback on the car, I guess at that price point you can get a GT3 if you want a car that actually performs the best/is the best quality, other entrants probably feel much more unique and special to be seen in because there are so many 911s on the road, but ultimately don't live up to it.
No elevation changes. But track is fun, twisty, has some straight aways also. Nothing too great but it gives you a solid feel for the car and the limits.
Back to the cars. Hard to say, I think the gt3 feels special in its own way. It’s quality, performance and value to an extent backed all into one.
Usually the others will be missing one of those three attributes. The 488 was there also, which IMO has way more presence but also has 2x the price. Under 200k imo there is nothing better than the gt3 for a fun weekend sports car.
Under 100k is a low optioned cayman gts 4.0.
I really did like the wide body challenger more than I should though … but that thing isn't cheap either
The Chally is awesome but it is a '4th car' IMO. Something like a GT4 can do everything fun, Hellcats are more of a party trick.max225 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:25 pmFinally you read it!D Griff wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:27 pm man, looks like an epic experience!
I'm assuming the 'LV' shape on the hood is the track layout?
Is there any elevation change or anything? I will probably do this one trip to LV.
Interesting feedback on the car, I guess at that price point you can get a GT3 if you want a car that actually performs the best/is the best quality, other entrants probably feel much more unique and special to be seen in because there are so many 911s on the road, but ultimately don't live up to it.
No elevation changes. But track is fun, twisty, has some straight aways also. Nothing too great but it gives you a solid feel for the car and the limits.
Back to the cars. Hard to say, I think the gt3 feels special in its own way. It’s quality, performance and value to an extent backed all into one.
Usually the others will be missing one of those three attributes. The 488 was there also, which IMO has way more presence but also has 2x the price. Under 200k imo there is nothing better than the gt3 for a fun weekend sports car.
Under 100k is a low optioned cayman gts 4.0.
I really did like the wide body challenger more than I should though … but that thing isn't cheap either
- max225
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It has a real trunk, doesn’t draw too much attention, ground clearance, and plenty of interior space. It’s also far easier to get in and out of without having to wear pants to not turn up like Britney. All the other cars did not have those attributes. It also felt like it can hit a pothole or 100, unlike something running on 20”+ rubber bandsD Griff wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:55 amThe Chally is awesome but it is a '4th car' IMO. Something like a GT4 can do everything fun, Hellcats are more of a party trick.max225 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:25 pm
Finally you read it!
No elevation changes. But track is fun, twisty, has some straight aways also. Nothing too great but it gives you a solid feel for the car and the limits.
Back to the cars. Hard to say, I think the gt3 feels special in its own way. It’s quality, performance and value to an extent backed all into one.
Usually the others will be missing one of those three attributes. The 488 was there also, which IMO has way more presence but also has 2x the price. Under 200k imo there is nothing better than the gt3 for a fun weekend sports car.
Under 100k is a low optioned cayman gts 4.0.
I really did like the wide body challenger more than I should though … but that thing isn't cheap either
- max225
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Victim in question is a 2021 Landrover Defender X-Dynamic 110.
Preface is that I am looking for a primary travel/utility vehicle for myself and my spouse. While I loved the Tacoma, it just didn't check all the boxes that I wanted at the moment. (Engine/Trans in particular) and back seat space and uniqueness.
That said lets start off with what this defender has.
~It has an MSRP of about ~90k which is much higher than the way I would build it.
3 rows of seats
Special AC for the 3rd row or dogs with a bigger compressor.
Moonroof
Air suspension
Updated Meridian stereo with 15 speakers
I6 "mild hybrid" twin turbo + supercharged @390hp
Some autonomous driving features (CC only to be fair)
Real Leather interior
Digital Dash
Digital Rear View mirror
(all above is optional over a base defender)
Lets get into the meat! I have a shit ton of thoughts here because I have been thinking about a defender even BEFORE a tacoma, but I didn't want to deal with first year issues with the least reliable brand on the market. I will try and separate it into likes and dislikes and then summarize my particular thoughts on it. I'll be comparing this with my Tacoma, and a GLE350 and wrangler. Mainly because this thing has elements of all 3 and i have experiences with all 3.
Good:
Not much to say here, because this is a house, so it drives NICE. But it needs to have smaller than 20" wheels. It is to run em that big, I would get 19"s but I would prefer the 18"s unfortunately they only come with the smaller motor.
The brakes with FIXED 6 piston front calipers don't seem any better than my TACOMA DRUMS OMG OMG HOW HOW OMG. DRUMS! But that's as expected. I did wish they were a bit better. But large heavy ass vehicles stop like shit... shocking I know.
Handling is... as expected nothing to report period. That's not why anyone buys these things.
Engine- while mostly great has a weird "dead" spot between 2000-2500rpm... which is annoying AF. It seems to be right before the turbos fully kick in and kick ass... But the smaller motor may not have this (In my recollection) And may therefore be a better choice. because frankly I don't give a shit about any RPM above 3000 in a house. ALL THE POWER needs to be between 1000-3000. The torque peak comes on at 1500 in the smaller motor.... But I wonder if it is as smooth as the big boy 6.
There is SOME wind noise... but it is overall no where near jeep level, but it is no where near as quiet as a MB. Split down the middle.
Overal comfort level is HIGH, higher than most vehicles period.
I can hear the moon roof creak on driveways etc. the tacoma and other vehicles seemed less "Flexible" Chassis doesn't seem too rigid.
MPG: As expected it is abysmal... or at least pretty bad. IT gets about 18 in my mixed use driving.. mostly chill highway cruising and some mountain driving. My tacoma got about 5-10% better, and the MB is 20-30% better. Calling this a hybrid is a joke. There is nothing hybrid about it. And it takes premium of course.
Final thoughts:
I am incredibly MIXED on this after the trip. I was hoping it would be a knock out but it left me with as much of a mixed bag going in as going out.
Yes it is great to look at, it has a great size, it is very decent to drive, it has a great stereo and great headlights. But it has so much half baked ergonomic shit in it that drives me up a wall that I am not sure I can commit unless I find some workarounds?!
This vehicle for the most part delivers on the premise but it also comes with a sense of fragility and complexity that is a bit of a turn off for me. It just seems "Over-engineered" in areas where it shouldn't be. This is certainly a "NEEDS WARRANTY AND SUPPORT" vehicle.
Now I am not sure how I will go on from here which is unfortunate, as I really wanted to purchase one. Do I get one without the moon roof and the big engine to keep things simple? Or do I just pass on it period? No idea. Lots of thinking to do, but I can't say I am ready to sign 70-80k of cold hard cash away on this thing as of yet.
Preface is that I am looking for a primary travel/utility vehicle for myself and my spouse. While I loved the Tacoma, it just didn't check all the boxes that I wanted at the moment. (Engine/Trans in particular) and back seat space and uniqueness.
That said lets start off with what this defender has.
~It has an MSRP of about ~90k which is much higher than the way I would build it.
3 rows of seats
Special AC for the 3rd row or dogs with a bigger compressor.
Moonroof
Air suspension
Updated Meridian stereo with 15 speakers
I6 "mild hybrid" twin turbo + supercharged @390hp
Some autonomous driving features (CC only to be fair)
Real Leather interior
Digital Dash
Digital Rear View mirror
(all above is optional over a base defender)
Lets get into the meat! I have a shit ton of thoughts here because I have been thinking about a defender even BEFORE a tacoma, but I didn't want to deal with first year issues with the least reliable brand on the market. I will try and separate it into likes and dislikes and then summarize my particular thoughts on it. I'll be comparing this with my Tacoma, and a GLE350 and wrangler. Mainly because this thing has elements of all 3 and i have experiences with all 3.
Good:
- This thing looks fantastic- People STARE at it, and not in a disgusting way... It gets parked IN FRONT of fancy hotels by valets etc. Happened multiple times to me and it is a very interesting experience as this isn't a SPORTS CAR or a HYPERCAR, but it gets a lot of positive feedback. I did not expect that
The size is really good-It feels about the same size as wrangler, quite a bit shorter than my tacoma. But it is TALL, which creates issues at points, because it doesn't seem to clear a lot of parking garage issues without being lowered. It is about 6'5" tall but many times in 7' garages I was lowering it to not feel like I am squeezing in and about to ent the roof. You can easily fit a 6'10" person in the drivers seat. No headroom issues even with the moon roof.
The engine - This is almost not making the good list, but I did appreciate the ample power + it is incredibly smooth and quiet. You don't feel this thing at idle, at all...
Auto start stop - even though it turns "on" automatically, I HATE THIS FEATURE IN EVERY CAR. But in the defender it actually never turned the engine off... in the 400 miles I have had it.
Headlights - Excellent, but I can't say they are much better than tacoma LEDs but they are nice.
Camera quality - Unlike some other brands is excellent and super sharp.
Interior quality - Everything you touch feels/looks good. There is no corner cutting that is visible anywhere. This is a high quality vehicle. Far superior than anything toyota... However, MB interior quality is no worse, just perhaps a bit more boring. (more on this later). The Fridge inside the center console is a must have. It isn't a gimmick and actually works like a CHARM. MUST HAVE FEATURE!
- Ergonomics- This is not what I expected... but it is FUCKING ANNOYING. Complete first world problems but let me list some things out that are unacceptable.
You can only LOCK the doors from the passenger size. You can not UNLOCK, this is a feature we use DAILY, thanks to the Zombies in the streets... It literally has a button on both sides, but on passenger size all it does it LOCK drivers side locks and unlocks ?
You can't adjust the fan speed without pushing a button first and then TURNING the adjustment ring... why? Fan speed is something you adjust ALL THE TIME? (at least I do). This should be a single step control
You can't enter the car by just sliding your hand into the door handle... you have to push the button on the left first. Toyota has this figured out? Why can't LR?
The blind spots are pretty bad, and the blind spot monitor seems a bit spotty compared to toyota and MB. And the side view mirrors are VERTICAL instead of horizontal. Epicly bad combo.
- Infotainment/Tech This is where it gets fun. You don't get to experience this unless you have the vehicle for a while and actually use... It MAYBE a deal breaker for me.
Driver assistance: Useless! Adaptive cruise is useless to me period because the vehicle always accelerates or brakes too fast and is too dumb to look past the vehicle in front.
Lane keep assist: this feature shouldn't even be called that. It does NOTHING in the defender... like nothing. It changes some lane marking colors on the screen if you drive over a lane.... no steering wheel assist nothing. This whole thing is a BUST.
The digital dash: ah... Lets re-invent the wheel. Without going into huge details here... let me give you some examples of how it's just not done super well: 1. The distance to empty is TINY you can barely read it and it is sometimes replaced with the Trip distance, depending on the screen read out?! Like this is a CRUCIAL read out! And the clock... well that bitch is all the way in the bottom right corner in the same size 4 font... WHY CAN'T IT BE FRONT AND CENTER LIKE IN EVERY OTHER CAR! I found most of the digital dash read outs to be pointless or just not well thought out...
Infotainment screen: Let me start with the highlights. You can't have a map direction + Music on the same screen unless you're using car play and you're using your PHONE to stream music. So ... say you want to change a song... while looking at the map (Constant thing you do while traveling). YOU CAN NOT. Why? There is NO FUCKING TUNING KNOB?! NONE.. You have to click out of carplay, click into sirius, change song, while rolling blind then click back into CarPlay. It can be circumvented while using the onboard nav... and having the map displayed on the dash. However. ?! This seems so simple... WHY IS THERE NO TUNE KNOB!?! And why doesn't the screen show mixed use map+ Music and you don't have to remove it from the default setting to change a song. Sigh.. this is not good, I have not encountered this in modern cars.
This vehicle, and it may have been an issue had some sort of automatic hill hold assist. Which would be great on hills, but it was on 70% of the time on FLAT ROADS. Causing a notable delay every time you hit the gas because the rear brakes are constantly engaging/disengaging. seems like a complete software fluke
Not much to say here, because this is a house, so it drives NICE. But it needs to have smaller than 20" wheels. It is to run em that big, I would get 19"s but I would prefer the 18"s unfortunately they only come with the smaller motor.
The brakes with FIXED 6 piston front calipers don't seem any better than my TACOMA DRUMS OMG OMG HOW HOW OMG. DRUMS! But that's as expected. I did wish they were a bit better. But large heavy ass vehicles stop like shit... shocking I know.
Handling is... as expected nothing to report period. That's not why anyone buys these things.
Engine- while mostly great has a weird "dead" spot between 2000-2500rpm... which is annoying AF. It seems to be right before the turbos fully kick in and kick ass... But the smaller motor may not have this (In my recollection) And may therefore be a better choice. because frankly I don't give a shit about any RPM above 3000 in a house. ALL THE POWER needs to be between 1000-3000. The torque peak comes on at 1500 in the smaller motor.... But I wonder if it is as smooth as the big boy 6.
There is SOME wind noise... but it is overall no where near jeep level, but it is no where near as quiet as a MB. Split down the middle.
Overal comfort level is HIGH, higher than most vehicles period.
I can hear the moon roof creak on driveways etc. the tacoma and other vehicles seemed less "Flexible" Chassis doesn't seem too rigid.
MPG: As expected it is abysmal... or at least pretty bad. IT gets about 18 in my mixed use driving.. mostly chill highway cruising and some mountain driving. My tacoma got about 5-10% better, and the MB is 20-30% better. Calling this a hybrid is a joke. There is nothing hybrid about it. And it takes premium of course.
Final thoughts:
I am incredibly MIXED on this after the trip. I was hoping it would be a knock out but it left me with as much of a mixed bag going in as going out.
Yes it is great to look at, it has a great size, it is very decent to drive, it has a great stereo and great headlights. But it has so much half baked ergonomic shit in it that drives me up a wall that I am not sure I can commit unless I find some workarounds?!
This vehicle for the most part delivers on the premise but it also comes with a sense of fragility and complexity that is a bit of a turn off for me. It just seems "Over-engineered" in areas where it shouldn't be. This is certainly a "NEEDS WARRANTY AND SUPPORT" vehicle.
Now I am not sure how I will go on from here which is unfortunate, as I really wanted to purchase one. Do I get one without the moon roof and the big engine to keep things simple? Or do I just pass on it period? No idea. Lots of thinking to do, but I can't say I am ready to sign 70-80k of cold hard cash away on this thing as of yet.
Last edited by max225 on Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Tar
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0/7 would get the bigger motor version over the base. The bigger motor is nice, but is sounds like a marvel of British and Indian Joint Engineering ( ), but the 18s and removal of creaky sunroof, and cooler white steelies just appeals to me. Who needs to drive that thing fast anyways?
The kessy passenger lock/unlock thing sounds like a failed module in the passenger handle, probably a first year part failure thing.... My R had the same thing and was replaced with no follow up issues.
The kessy passenger lock/unlock thing sounds like a failed module in the passenger handle, probably a first year part failure thing.... My R had the same thing and was replaced with no follow up issues.
- max225
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Door still opens, the comment was more around the fact that toyota and mb only require you to place the hand in the handle without pushing the button on said handle to open doors. But both LR and Mini require an extra unnecessary step.Tarspin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:25 pm 0/7 would get the bigger motor version over the base. The bigger motor is nice, but is sounds like a marvel of British and Indian Joint Engineering ( ), but the 18s and removal of creaky sunroof, and cooler white steelies just appeals to me. Who needs to drive that thing fast anyways?
The kessy passenger lock/unlock thing sounds like a failed module in the passenger handle, probably a first year part failure thing.... My R had the same thing and was replaced with no follow up issues.
We may drive a 2.slow one tomorrow with regards to the first point. 100% agreed on said comment, why get it fast ? It’s a stupid off road box ! Simplicity may be key here as weird as it all sounds. The ethos of this brand and this vehicle are at a complete clashing point.
Moon roof ?
Senselessly big motor?
Non working autonomous features !?
Creaky moon roofs ?
Giant ?
Where do you press the X next to the order button?!
- Tar
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I see about the door opening point now, single step locking and unlocking kessy systems make perfect sense. Everyone else seems to know whats up and it makes me think that pride, laziness, or a disregard for continuous improvement is lacking on a corporate level. Toyota, as much as they are boring have the opposite mindset, and it shows in their products.max225 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:48 pmDoor still opens, the comment was more around the fact that toyota and mb only require you to place the hand in the handle without pushing the button on said handle to open doors. But both LR and Mini require an extra unnecessary step.Tarspin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:25 pm 0/7 would get the bigger motor version over the base. The bigger motor is nice, but is sounds like a marvel of British and Indian Joint Engineering ( ), but the 18s and removal of creaky sunroof, and cooler white steelies just appeals to me. Who needs to drive that thing fast anyways?
The kessy passenger lock/unlock thing sounds like a failed module in the passenger handle, probably a first year part failure thing.... My R had the same thing and was replaced with no follow up issues.
We may drive a 2.slow one tomorrow with regards to the first point. 100% agreed on said comment, why get it fast ? It’s a stupid off road box ! Simplicity may be key here as weird as it all sounds. The ethos of this brand and this vehicle are at a complete clashing point.
Moon roof ?
Senselessly big motor?
Non working autonomous features !?
Creaky moon roofs ?
Giant ?
Where do you press the X next to the order button?!
Personally, if I didn't like the base package after this experience, then it wasn't meant to be. I really love the way these look and hope it ends up being a win for you. Dan's beep-beep has a 2.0T and it goes great, personally I think it is not the right motor for the job either, but nobody builds a proper i6 anymore thanks in part to dumb tax regimes that endore a 2.0T and insinuate that it will somehow be better for Greta and her friendzzzz when they grow up.
- Johnny_P
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These seem cool. I’d try out the tiny dick motor and if it works then go for it. I know nothing about the engines but they seem like neat vehicles.
Keep it 5 years and dump it. Should be worry free for at least that duration.
Keep it 5 years and dump it. Should be worry free for at least that duration.
- max225
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Drove the baby dick “base” model today. Worlds different of an experience than prior. I think it was far less beat up than the turo. Ride quality on 19s was way better.
The smaller engine and lack of options also made it seem a lot lighter on its feet…
I really didn’t hate it. Lots of thinking to do… it seems to get the smaller engine and it does seem to work a lot harder. But at the same time I really enjoyed it for what it was … maybe the turo one was fucked !!?
The smaller engine and lack of options also made it seem a lot lighter on its feet…
I really didn’t hate it. Lots of thinking to do… it seems to get the smaller engine and it does seem to work a lot harder. But at the same time I really enjoyed it for what it was … maybe the turo one was fucked !!?