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Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:41 pm
by Johnny_P
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:29 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:28 pm

It's gonna break anyway, may as well let it break after having more fun with it.
Yep, nothing like dropping 40k on a brand new fiat and popping the motor by 30k miles.
This whole ... "think of a new car with a tune" attitude is completely not understandable to me.

BUY THE BETTER CAR, if you don't like it as it sits. These tooners come and go quicker than you can say Fix it again Tony.
Buy a used one for $15k not a new one for $40k

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:46 pm
by Johnny_P
Detroit wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:55 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:40 pm

C/D jerked it big time to the Giulia, put it on 10 best list.
Yea, well...take that with a grain of salt.

:triggered:

I challenge anyone to go sit in a Giulia and tell me it feels just as nice as a BMW or Audi inside.
It’s totally out classed in its segment and I really don’t understand why all the mags are :jizz: over the interior. It feels cheap. So does the Jag. Exterior looks and engine and performance are why you’d get the Alfa. But even then the 4 cyl has undefeatable traction control.

IDK what their plan is with this car.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:49 pm
by ChrisoftheNorth
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:46 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:55 pm
Yea, well...take that with a grain of salt.

:triggered:

I challenge anyone to go sit in a Giulia and tell me it feels just as nice as a BMW or Audi inside.
It’s totally out classed in its segment and I really don’t understand why all the mags are :jizz: over the interior. It feels cheap. So does the Jag. Exterior looks and engine and performance are why you’d get the Alfa. But even then the 4 cyl has undefeatable traction control.

IDK what their plan is with this car.
I think there were grand plans of lux segment domination. :derp: don't care about traction control being turned off. And they probably don't even notice cheap feeling interiors. The car looks secky, it's priced high, and has some uniqueness in not being one of the big 3 german lux companies.

Is it working? Too soon to tell I think. I suspect not...

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:05 pm
by max225
Detroit wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:49 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:46 pm

It’s totally out classed in its segment and I really don’t understand why all the mags are :jizz: over the interior. It feels cheap. So does the Jag. Exterior looks and engine and performance are why you’d get the Alfa. But even then the 4 cyl has undefeatable traction control.

IDK what their plan is with this car.
I think there were grand plans of lux segment domination. :derp: don't care about traction control being turned off. And they probably don't even notice cheap feeling interiors. The car looks secky, it's priced high, and has some uniqueness in not being one of the big 3 german lux companies.

Is it working? Too soon to tell I think. I suspect not...
It is selling ok...

Also about the TC. Does anyone really care ? I mean I turned mine off fully 3 times, to fry some older tires and to spin some doughnuts on a rain soaked parking lot...
Would I leave it off daily? No... open rear end and tons of power. It is really nice to have a safety net.

The interior thing is a bish though, their plastics are pretty cheap and the shifter is straight out of a bolt, which is odd, considering the price point. I think those folks in this price range want a nice interior and good quality materials, that's what you pay an extra 10-20k for over a comparable american sedan. But on the flipside it has an interesting Badge, and cool exterior styling... i suppose those are the trade offs.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:15 pm
by ChrisoftheNorth
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:05 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:49 pm
I think there were grand plans of lux segment domination. :derp: don't care about traction control being turned off. And they probably don't even notice cheap feeling interiors. The car looks secky, it's priced high, and has some uniqueness in not being one of the big 3 german lux companies.

Is it working? Too soon to tell I think. I suspect not...
It is selling ok...

Also about the TC. Does anyone really care ? I mean I turned mine off fully 3 times, to fry some older tires and to spin some doughnuts on a rain soaked parking lot...
Would I leave it off daily? No... open rear end and tons of power. It is really nice to have a safety net.

The interior thing is a bish though, their plastics are pretty cheap and the shifter is straight out of a bolt, which is odd, considering the price point. I think those folks in this price range want a nice interior and good quality materials, that's what you pay an extra 10-20k for over a comparable american sedan. But on the flipside it has an interesting Badge, and cool exterior styling... i suppose those are the trade offs.
TC fully off is only fun in autox or offroad or whatever. On a 2.0 derpmobile? zfg

Re: Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:37 pm
by Calvinball
max225 wrote:
Detroit wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:49 pm I think there were grand plans of lux segment domination. :derp: don't care about traction control being turned off. And they probably don't even notice cheap feeling interiors. The car looks secky, it's priced high, and has some uniqueness in not being one of the big 3 german lux companies.

Is it working? Too soon to tell I think. I suspect not...
It is selling ok...

Also about the TC. Does anyone really care ? I mean I turned mine off fully 3 times, to fry some older tires and to spin some doughnuts on a rain soaked parking lot...
Would I leave it off daily? No... open rear end and tons of power. It is really nice to have a safety net.

The interior thing is a bish though, their plastics are pretty cheap and the shifter is straight out of a bolt, which is odd, considering the price point. I think those folks in this price range want a nice interior and good quality materials, that's what you pay an extra 10-20k for over a comparable american sedan. But on the flipside it has an interesting Badge, and cool exterior styling... i suppose those are the trade offs.
If you have any lsds then you want to be able to turn TC off in slippery conditions.


Sent from the Beer Depository

Re: Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:40 pm
by troyguitar
Detroit wrote:
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:05 pm It is selling ok...

Also about the TC. Does anyone really care ? I mean I turned mine off fully 3 times, to fry some older tires and to spin some doughnuts on a rain soaked parking lot...
Would I leave it off daily? No... open rear end and tons of power. It is really nice to have a safety net.

The interior thing is a bish though, their plastics are pretty cheap and the shifter is straight out of a bolt, which is odd, considering the price point. I think those folks in this price range want a nice interior and good quality materials, that's what you pay an extra 10-20k for over a comparable american sedan. But on the flipside it has an interesting Badge, and cool exterior styling... i suppose those are the trade offs.
TC fully off is only fun in autox or offroad or whatever. On a 2.0 derpmobile? zfg
I'd like to test drive the XE more than the Giulia, personally. I never see or hear about them, though, so :iono: if they will even depreciate since they are so rare. Also no :manuel:

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:48 pm
by Johnny_P
Detroit wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:15 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:05 pm

It is selling ok...

Also about the TC. Does anyone really care ? I mean I turned mine off fully 3 times, to fry some older tires and to spin some doughnuts on a rain soaked parking lot...
Would I leave it off daily? No... open rear end and tons of power. It is really nice to have a safety net.

The interior thing is a bish though, their plastics are pretty cheap and the shifter is straight out of a bolt, which is odd, considering the price point. I think those folks in this price range want a nice interior and good quality materials, that's what you pay an extra 10-20k for over a comparable american sedan. But on the flipside it has an interesting Badge, and cool exterior styling... i suppose those are the trade offs.
TC fully off is only fun in autox or offroad or whatever. On a 2.0 derpmobile? zfg
The TC on this car has been noted as overactive. Inhibits slalom and skid pad performance. Why have a great balanced chassis if it can’t be used? There is no track mode or anything it just doesn’t turn off at all.

Also it’s not like it’s a fucking civic. It’s got nearly 300 hp in the base model and available LSD.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:52 pm
by Johnny_P
troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:40 pm
Detroit wrote: TC fully off is only fun in autox or offroad or whatever. On a 2.0 derpmobile? zfg
I'd like to test drive the XE more than the Giulia, personally. I never see or hear about them, though, so :iono: if they will even depreciate since they are so rare. Also no :manuel:
It’s a Jag. There is no floor to its depreciation.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:56 pm
by D Griff
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:46 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:55 pm
Yea, well...take that with a grain of salt.

:triggered:

I challenge anyone to go sit in a Giulia and tell me it feels just as nice as a BMW or Audi inside.
It’s totally out classed in its segment and I really don’t understand why all the mags are :jizz: over the interior. It feels cheap. So does the Jag. Exterior looks and engine and performance are why you’d get the Alfa. But even then the 4 cyl has undefeatable traction control.

IDK what their plan is with this car.
I really wanted to like/want the Giulia. It looks amazing, seems fun and all, but man. Only an enthusiast would even know what the hell it is, let alone consider one, so why no manual? I think in a relatively basic trim with manual but still the sporty stuff it would be a pretty neat car, but as it is, it's a no go for me.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:11 pm
by troyguitar
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:52 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:40 pm I'd like to test drive the XE more than the Giulia, personally. I never see or hear about them, though, so :iono: if they will even depreciate since they are so rare. Also no :manuel:
It’s a Jag. There is no floor to its depreciation.
:word:

It's just weird that the initial reviews all said it was incredible and then I've never seen a follow-up.
Then we hammered the XE over Portugal’s wandering two-lanes, connecting sun-bleached villages with a supercharged wail and a red blur. Behind the wheel, the pounds melt away in an effortless hustle that’s all precision and dexterity. Helped by adaptive dampers and brake-based torque vectoring, the XE S turns in quick, corners flat, and exits fast. A crease in the asphalt at the apex becomes a twitch in your palms, a flash of recognition in your brain, and a wiggle of your wrists, all without conscious thought. This is real, living, breathing steering feel, and the XE has it in spades. You’ll laugh, you’ll cry tears of joy, and you’ll marvel that this is Jaguar’s first use of electric power steering in a sedan. It is exceptional.

Despite providing such a faithful interpretation of what’s happening at the tires, the XE is never harsh. Jaguar engineers credit what they call an integral link rear suspension. A short, vertical link between the control arm and the wheel carrier isolates certain bushings so they react to cornering forces with minimal influence on ride quality, and vice versa. The bushings that affect handling are stiffened and those responsible for impact suppression are softened. It all appears to work as advertised. The XE carves as well as the Cadillac ATS yet has the compliance of a Mercedes-Benz C-class.
Jaguar wants its XE to be known as the driver’s car in its class, and that claim might go uncontested in the Old World, where the 3-series barely hangs on to its reputation. But the Brits are either inexperienced with the Cadillac ATS or willfully ignorant of its charms. The American sports sedan holds an edge in steering feel, turn-in, and at-the-limit behavior. The Jaguar’s advantage is that it offers most of the Caddy’s sharpness without the flinty ride. The XE drives like a maxi-Miata, only without so much body roll. It’s rolling proof that soft cars aren’t always sloppy and sporty models needn’t be stiff.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:24 am
by ChrisoftheNorth
troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:11 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:52 pm

It’s a Jag. There is no floor to its depreciation.
:word:

It's just weird that the initial reviews all said it was incredible and then I've never seen a follow-up.
Then we hammered the XE over Portugal’s wandering two-lanes, connecting sun-bleached villages with a supercharged wail and a red blur. Behind the wheel, the pounds melt away in an effortless hustle that’s all precision and dexterity. Helped by adaptive dampers and brake-based torque vectoring, the XE S turns in quick, corners flat, and exits fast. A crease in the asphalt at the apex becomes a twitch in your palms, a flash of recognition in your brain, and a wiggle of your wrists, all without conscious thought. This is real, living, breathing steering feel, and the XE has it in spades. You’ll laugh, you’ll cry tears of joy, and you’ll marvel that this is Jaguar’s first use of electric power steering in a sedan. It is exceptional.

Despite providing such a faithful interpretation of what’s happening at the tires, the XE is never harsh. Jaguar engineers credit what they call an integral link rear suspension. A short, vertical link between the control arm and the wheel carrier isolates certain bushings so they react to cornering forces with minimal influence on ride quality, and vice versa. The bushings that affect handling are stiffened and those responsible for impact suppression are softened. It all appears to work as advertised. The XE carves as well as the Cadillac ATS yet has the compliance of a Mercedes-Benz C-class.
Jaguar wants its XE to be known as the driver’s car in its class, and that claim might go uncontested in the Old World, where the 3-series barely hangs on to its reputation. But the Brits are either inexperienced with the Cadillac ATS or willfully ignorant of its charms. The American sports sedan holds an edge in steering feel, turn-in, and at-the-limit behavior. The Jaguar’s advantage is that it offers most of the Caddy’s sharpness without the flinty ride. The XE drives like a maxi-Miata, only without so much body roll. It’s rolling proof that soft cars aren’t always sloppy and sporty models needn’t be stiff.
Yea, the media went :jizz: :triggered: :jizz: over the thing then radio silence. I think part of it was the Alfa coming out and upstaging it, but I too would be more interested in it than the Alfa.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:25 am
by ChrisoftheNorth
Calvinball wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:37 pm
max225 wrote:
It is selling ok...

Also about the TC. Does anyone really care ? I mean I turned mine off fully 3 times, to fry some older tires and to spin some doughnuts on a rain soaked parking lot...
Would I leave it off daily? No... open rear end and tons of power. It is really nice to have a safety net.

The interior thing is a bish though, their plastics are pretty cheap and the shifter is straight out of a bolt, which is odd, considering the price point. I think those folks in this price range want a nice interior and good quality materials, that's what you pay an extra 10-20k for over a comparable american sedan. But on the flipside it has an interesting Badge, and cool exterior styling... i suppose those are the trade offs.
If you have any lsds then you want to be able to turn TC off in slippery conditions.


Sent from the Beer Depository
How the hell drives a RWD car in slippery conditions?

:triggered:

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:40 am
by Johnny_P
I turned off traction control today when I turned from S. Broad onto Pattison Ave. At the entry point of the turn, turned the wheel, gunned the throttle, and enjoyed a glorious transfer of power and weight to the rear wheels with zero understeer and a nice little slide going around the turn.

:millennial:

Impossibru to do that in a 300 HP RWD driver's car with LSD that goes to 60 in 5 flat and mid 13's quarter mile? :butwhy: Because it's just a grocery getter :derp: mobile? :wtf:

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:45 am
by ChrisoftheNorth
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:40 am I turned off traction control today when I turned from S. Broad onto Pattison Ave. At the entry point of the turn, turned the wheel, gunned the throttle, and enjoyed a glorious transfer of power and weight to the rear wheels with zero understeer and a nice little slide going around the turn.

:millennial:

Impossibru to do that in a 300 HP RWD driver's car with LSD that goes to 60 in 5 flat and mid 13's quarter mile? :butwhy: Because it's just a grocery getter :derp: mobile? :wtf:
Hang on...are we talking traction control or stability control? Traction control should be mostly defeatable...it's stability control that you usually can't turn off. And then it depends on the system. When I turn traction control off in my :truk: the stability control gets looser too...and will let you have quite a bit of fun before stepping in to save your ass.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:46 am
by Johnny_P
Also I suspect a downfall of the Jag XE is the interior is :mygod: levels of poverty at it's price point. When it came out I was excited to check it out at the auto show. I came away 100% :disgust: The entire interior is trimmed in a combination of matte black VW Golf plastic with super shiny piano black plastic thrown all over the center stack. Infotainment looks like it came out of a previous gen Wrangler. Steering wheel is gigantic. And it was the only car in the show that rattled and creaked when I sat down in the seat. It was in NO way comparable to a Benz C class or BMW 3 series. Not even on the same playing field.

:nothanks:

The Giulia has the same problem.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:47 am
by Johnny_P
Detroit wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:45 am
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:40 am I turned off traction control today when I turned from S. Broad onto Pattison Ave. At the entry point of the turn, turned the wheel, gunned the throttle, and enjoyed a glorious transfer of power and weight to the rear wheels with zero understeer and a nice little slide going around the turn.

:millennial:

Impossibru to do that in a 300 HP RWD driver's car with LSD that goes to 60 in 5 flat and mid 13's quarter mile? :butwhy: Because it's just a grocery getter :derp: mobile? :wtf:
Hang on...are we talking traction control or stability control? Traction control should be mostly defeatable...it's stability control that you usually can't turn off. And then it depends on the system. When I turn traction control off in my :truk: the stability control gets looser too...and will let you have quite a bit of fun before stepping in to save your ass.
My car goes 100% fully off no nannies if you want it to. It's a 3-stage system with normal, track, and off. Like God intended. Back roads I'll leave it on track. There are a few places I turn it fully off for safe shenanigans. And turn it fully off for snow driving.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:55 am
by ChrisoftheNorth
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:47 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:45 am
Hang on...are we talking traction control or stability control? Traction control should be mostly defeatable...it's stability control that you usually can't turn off. And then it depends on the system. When I turn traction control off in my :truk: the stability control gets looser too...and will let you have quite a bit of fun before stepping in to save your ass.
My car goes 100% fully off no nannies if you want it to. It's a 3-stage system with normal, track, and off. Like God intended. Back roads I'll leave it on track. There are a few places I turn it fully off for safe shenanigans. And turn it fully off for snow driving.
Same in my :truk: and :poorvette:

But the point is, I've driven some systems where "off" is pretty close to off, just won't let you die.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:01 am
by Johnny_P
Detroit wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:55 am
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:47 am

My car goes 100% fully off no nannies if you want it to. It's a 3-stage system with normal, track, and off. Like God intended. Back roads I'll leave it on track. There are a few places I turn it fully off for safe shenanigans. And turn it fully off for snow driving.
Same in my :truk: and :poorvette:

But the point is, I've driven some systems where "off" is pretty close to off, just won't let you die.
Right, which is fine. I'd be interested to see if the Giulia lets you have any slidey fun. From what I'm reading it doesn't, which is disappointing in a RWD sports sedan.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:03 am
by ChrisoftheNorth
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:01 am
Detroit wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:55 am Same in my :truk: and :poorvette:

But the point is, I've driven some systems where "off" is pretty close to off, just won't let you die.
Right, which is fine. I'd be interested to see if the Giulia lets you have any slidey fun. From what I'm reading it doesn't, which is disappointing in a RWD sports sedan.
:dat:

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:08 am
by Johnny_P
I'm just tainted by my GTI experience where the TC was so intrusive you couldn't have any fun. Any semblance of rotation or break in traction was met with the flashy TC light, brake activation, and terminal understeer.

:rage:

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:30 am
by ChrisoftheNorth
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:08 am I'm just tainted by my GTI experience where the TC was so intrusive you couldn't have any fun. Any semblance of rotation or break in traction was met with the flashy TC light, brake activation, and terminal understeer.

:rage:
Yea, that sucked. But it was also FWD.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:41 am
by ChrisoftheNorth
[user not found] wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:37 am
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:08 am I'm just tainted by my GTI experience where the TC was so intrusive you couldn't have any fun. Any semblance of rotation or break in traction was met with the flashy TC light, brake activation, and terminal understeer.

:rage:
I coded mine defeatable via long-press via VCDS. Glory be unto VAGcom.

The cracking of that code is actually what made my decision to get a GTI.
Needed to be a 2012+, doe. I specifically got a 2012 and a knock-off VAGCOM just to do this.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:23 am
by Johnny_P
Detroit wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:30 am
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:08 am I'm just tainted by my GTI experience where the TC was so intrusive you couldn't have any fun. Any semblance of rotation or break in traction was met with the flashy TC light, brake activation, and terminal understeer.

:rage:
Yea, that sucked. But it was also FWD.
Only way I'm doing FWD again is if it's a 100% derpmobile with no power.

Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:24 am
by Johnny_P
Detroit wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:41 am
[user not found] wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:37 am

I coded mine defeatable via long-press via VCDS. Glory be unto VAGcom.

The cracking of that code is actually what made my decision to get a GTI.
Needed to be a 2012+, doe. I specifically got a 2012 and a knock-off VAGCOM just to do this.
Mine was a 2010 :sad: