Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

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troyguitar wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:52 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:38 pm

Yeah high insurance rates are annoying on these.
I mean it's still cheaper than other new cars (even those with lower MSRPs) due to low depreciation, but new cars simply are not cheap in any case.
Yeah for a new car the overall cost is somewhat reasonable but still not cheaper than a good used car.

Unless the used car has epic depreciation. A 1 year old CX5 would have experienced more depreciation than my new STI for example.
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Johnny_P wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:00 pm
troyguitar wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:52 pm

I mean it's still cheaper than other new cars (even those with lower MSRPs) due to low depreciation, but new cars simply are not cheap in any case.
Yeah for a new car the overall cost is somewhat reasonable but still not cheaper than a good used car.

Unless the used car has epic depreciation. A 1 year old CX5 would have experienced more depreciation than my new STI for example.
I think that narrowing it down to "things that I'd enjoy DD'ing" and "things that I might enjoy autocrossing competitively" that also don't cost a fuck load of money pretty much brings the list of single car solutions to BRZ, RX8, and not much else. E92 M3 is kinda sorta low cost at this point as is 987.1 Cayman if you're willing to roll the dice on either of the German engines not exploding. $30k car today will likely be $15-20k in 5 years just like the WRX.

Maaaaaaybe a GTI Sport on super sale would do the job if you can get one of the fabled forumbro deals for $21k brand new - but I suspect real world you're lucky to get it for $25k. That has to be worth $10k or so after 5 years, right?

I'm kinda sorta lightening up on demanding RWD at least in a street car, since the long term goal is to have a proper trailered 700 lb autox car and/or a fun old project when I have a real garage+shop.
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troyguitar wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:16 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:00 pm

Yeah for a new car the overall cost is somewhat reasonable but still not cheaper than a good used car.

Unless the used car has epic depreciation. A 1 year old CX5 would have experienced more depreciation than my new STI for example.
I think that narrowing it down to "things that I'd enjoy DD'ing" and "things that I might enjoy autocrossing competitively" that also don't cost a fuck load of money pretty much brings the list of single car solutions to BRZ, RX8, and not much else. E92 M3 is kinda sorta low cost at this point as is 987.1 Cayman if you're willing to roll the dice on either of the German engines not exploding. $30k car today will likely be $15-20k in 5 years just like the WRX.

Maaaaaaybe a GTI Sport on super sale would do the job if you can get one of the fabled forumbro deals for $21k brand new - but I suspect real world you're lucky to get it for $25k. That has to be worth $10k or so after 5 years, right?

I'm kinda sorta lightening up on demanding RWD at least in a street car, since the long term goal is to have a proper trailered 700 lb autox car and/or a fun old project when I have a real garage+shop.
Speaking of which, I was trying to look at GLI's the other day, and I happen to stumble upon 2015 GTI's (like mine) that costed like $17k-$18k with only 30k miles, I am talking models that started at $28k+.
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[user not found] wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:58 pm
troyguitar wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:16 pm

I think that narrowing it down to "things that I'd enjoy DD'ing" and "things that I might enjoy autocrossing competitively" that also don't cost a fuck load of money pretty much brings the list of single car solutions to BRZ, RX8, and not much else. E92 M3 is kinda sorta low cost at this point as is 987.1 Cayman if you're willing to roll the dice on either of the German engines not exploding. $30k car today will likely be $15-20k in 5 years just like the WRX.

Maaaaaaybe a GTI Sport on super sale would do the job if you can get one of the fabled forumbro deals for $21k brand new - but I suspect real world you're lucky to get it for $25k. That has to be worth $10k or so after 5 years, right?

I'm kinda sorta lightening up on demanding RWD at least in a street car, since the long term goal is to have a proper trailered 700 lb autox car and/or a fun old project when I have a real garage+shop.
I've always maintained that the GTI is the perfect daily driver. Fun, tossable, but still refined enough that it doesn't punish you.

Kinda why I want the Alltrack. It's like a slightly longer slightly slower GTI.
I've got a much lower standard for "refinement" than the average forumbro :doe: so even a GTI is pretty much a luxury car.

Maybe I really will end up grabbing a :unicorn: RX8, I've been trying to talk myself into one for years now. Probably won't do anything :doe:
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troyguitar wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:16 pm
Maaaaaaybe a GTI Sport on super sale would do the job if you can get one of the fabled forumbro deals for $21k brand new - but I suspect real world you're lucky to get it for $25k. That has to be worth $10k or so after 5 years, right?
If you can find a Sport now (at least around here, there's only 3 left within 100 miles of my zip according to cargurus) You're probably looking at $6-7k off MSRP using all the cash rebates - but if you finance with VW you lose $1500 (it was $1k when I bought mine) in rebates if you go for the 0.9/72 financing.

When I bought mine in August I was under $26k OTD with gap insurance, 7% sales tax, reg, etc... MSRP was $29455. I got about $5200 off MSRP and left the $1000 extra cash on the table to take the 0.9 APR). At the time, that was a damn solid deal.

I should have bought one of these instead of the FoST back then.
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[user not found] wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:58 pm
I've always maintained that the GTI is the perfect daily driver. Fun, tossable, but still refined enough that it doesn't punish you.

Kinda why I want the Alltrack. It's like a slightly longer slightly slower GTI.
Until you tune it, then it's a longer, AWD GTI.

But yeah, I'm about to hit 10k miles on the GTI after 4 months. In that time I've averaged 32.2 MPG. It eats highway mileage for breakfast. It's a set of good summer and winter tires away from being just about perfect for my needs.
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[user not found] wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:58 pm
troyguitar wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:16 pm

I think that narrowing it down to "things that I'd enjoy DD'ing" and "things that I might enjoy autocrossing competitively" that also don't cost a fuck load of money pretty much brings the list of single car solutions to BRZ, RX8, and not much else. E92 M3 is kinda sorta low cost at this point as is 987.1 Cayman if you're willing to roll the dice on either of the German engines not exploding. $30k car today will likely be $15-20k in 5 years just like the WRX.

Maaaaaaybe a GTI Sport on super sale would do the job if you can get one of the fabled forumbro deals for $21k brand new - but I suspect real world you're lucky to get it for $25k. That has to be worth $10k or so after 5 years, right?

I'm kinda sorta lightening up on demanding RWD at least in a street car, since the long term goal is to have a proper trailered 700 lb autox car and/or a fun old project when I have a real garage+shop.
I've always maintained that the GTI is the perfect daily driver. Fun, tossable, but still refined enough that it doesn't punish you.

Kinda why I want the Alltrack. It's like a slightly longer slightly slower GTI.
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fledonfoot wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:03 pm
troyguitar wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:16 pm
Maaaaaaybe a GTI Sport on super sale would do the job if you can get one of the fabled forumbro deals for $21k brand new - but I suspect real world you're lucky to get it for $25k. That has to be worth $10k or so after 5 years, right?
If you can find a Sport now (at least around here, there's only 3 left within 100 miles of my zip according to cargurus) You're probably looking at $6-7k off MSRP using all the cash rebates - but if you finance with VW you lose $1500 (it was $1k when I bought mine) in rebates if you go for the 0.9/72 financing.

When I bought mine in August I was under $26k OTD with gap insurance, 7% sales tax, reg, etc... MSRP was $29455. I got about $5200 off MSRP and left the $1000 extra cash on the table to take the 0.9 APR). At the time, that was a damn solid deal.

I should have bought one of these instead of the FoST back then.
Have you had any scraping issues with getting into/out of some of the lots we are at biking?
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Apex wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:30 pm
fledonfoot wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:03 pm

If you can find a Sport now (at least around here, there's only 3 left within 100 miles of my zip according to cargurus) You're probably looking at $6-7k off MSRP using all the cash rebates - but if you finance with VW you lose $1500 (it was $1k when I bought mine) in rebates if you go for the 0.9/72 financing.

When I bought mine in August I was under $26k OTD with gap insurance, 7% sales tax, reg, etc... MSRP was $29455. I got about $5200 off MSRP and left the $1000 extra cash on the table to take the 0.9 APR). At the time, that was a damn solid deal.

I should have bought one of these instead of the FoST back then.
Have you had any scraping issues with getting into/out of some of the lots we are at biking?
Nope. None at all. Even with the hitch.

Plan is for the wife's next car to be a bike friendly car. She wants a Jeep Renegade. I'm warming up to the idea.
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fledonfoot wrote:
Apex wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:30 pm Have you had any scraping issues with getting into/out of some of the lots we are at biking?
Nope. None at all. Even with the hitch.

Plan is for the wife's next car to be a bike friendly car. She wants a Jeep Renegade. I'm warming up to the idea.
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fledonfoot wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:42 pm
Apex wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:30 pm

Have you had any scraping issues with getting into/out of some of the lots we are at biking?
Nope. None at all. Even with the hitch.

Plan is for the wife's next car to be a bike friendly car. She wants a Jeep Renegade. I'm warming up to the idea.
:notbad: You have a nice setup on your GTI, I'd look into a DSG one if I trade the pumpkin.

I like the styling on the Renegade, but I've never driven one.
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troyguitar wrote:
[user not found] wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:58 pm I've always maintained that the GTI is the perfect daily driver. Fun, tossable, but still refined enough that it doesn't punish you.

Kinda why I want the Alltrack. It's like a slightly longer slightly slower GTI.
I've got a much lower standard for "refinement" than the average forumbro :doe: so even a GTI is pretty much a luxury car.

Maybe I really will end up grabbing a :unicorn: RX8, I've been trying to talk myself into one for years now. Probably won't do anything :doe:
The RX8 is underrated. It's a real four seater car that's "refined" enough for someone like you or me (nicer than a :poorvette: inside). It's a great handling car and the motor is neat. Reliability scared me away and I got the C5, but otherwise I probably would've bought one.
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Apex wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:47 pm
fledonfoot wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:42 pm

Nope. None at all. Even with the hitch.

Plan is for the wife's next car to be a bike friendly car. She wants a Jeep Renegade. I'm warming up to the idea.
:notbad: You have a nice setup on your GTI, I'd look into a DSG one if I trade the pumpkin.

I like the styling on the Renegade, but I've never driven one.
I kindof regret not getting a DSG GTI, but I'm retarded in that if a :manuel: is available, I must drive it.

Wifey wanted another Mini but I'm struggling to justify $34k for an S or $30 for a justacooper with a few options to get something bike friendly. Also, now that Princeton Mini closed, she refuses to give Mount Laurel the service business thanks to the complete lack of help they gave us last year. They're a quarter mile away from her work. There's a few niggling issues I want to have resolved, but ultimately the lease is up in 6 months and it's not worth it.

I just need to get her out of the Mini because of the bad juju from the accident. We should have never fixed it. It gives her anxiety. She hates it most days.

The only real downside to the Renegade is that it's slow. 0-60 in 10 seconds slow. Otherwise in Trailhawk trim I'll be a good all weather car for her, I can do some fun light off roading in it around here, and it's a good bike car. It's also quirky and has character, and the wife likes quirk.
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https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=GTI

Real pricing on this? :amazing:

:plac: but it's black...
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fledonfoot wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:57 pm
Apex wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:47 pm

:notbad: You have a nice setup on your GTI, I'd look into a DSG one if I trade the pumpkin.

I like the styling on the Renegade, but I've never driven one.
I kindof regret not getting a DSG GTI, but I'm retarded in that if a :manuel: is available, I must drive it.

Wifey wanted another Mini but I'm struggling to justify $34k for an S or $30 for a justacooper with a few options to get something bike friendly. Also, now that Princeton Mini closed, she refuses to give Mount Laurel the service business thanks to the complete lack of help they gave us last year. They're a quarter mile away from her work. There's a few niggling issues I want to have resolved, but ultimately the lease is up in 6 months and it's not worth it.

I just need to get her out of the Mini because of the bad juju from the accident. We should have never fixed it. It gives her anxiety. She hates it most days.

The only real downside to the Renegade is that it's slow. 0-60 in 10 seconds slow. Otherwise in Trailhawk trim I'll be a good all weather car for her, I can do some fun light off roading in it around here, and it's a good bike car. It's also quirky and has character, and the wife likes quirk.
If the GTI has some fun to the drive (it's the OG hot-hatch so it must, right?) I'd go that route over a new MINI. MINI is just freakin' expensive for what you get.

I don't see your other half going all :stig: in a Renegade... I'd see if you two could get one out for a decent test drive and see if it'll be "too slow" for what you'll use it for. Wife's DD and bike-duty? Might not be a bad choice.
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Apex wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:59 pm https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=GTI

Real pricing on this? :amazing:

:plac: but it's black...
It's close. VW has nuts cash on the hood - close to $4k in unadvertised dealer cash, a $1500 cash rebate OR 0% financing, and about $1500 of markup in the car. Score one for $1000 under invoice before incentives and you're there.
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D Griff wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:48 pm
troyguitar wrote:
I've got a much lower standard for "refinement" than the average forumbro :doe: so even a GTI is pretty much a luxury car.

Maybe I really will end up grabbing a :unicorn: RX8, I've been trying to talk myself into one for years now. Probably won't do anything :doe:
The RX8 is underrated. It's a real four seater car that's "refined" enough for someone like you or me (nicer than a :poorvette: inside). It's a great handling car and the motor is neat. Reliability scared me away and I got the C5, but otherwise I probably would've bought one.
My main concerns when I first shopped them in ~2013 were high fuel costs and the lack of fold-down rear seats, but that was when it was $15-20k for a nice later year one... now that they're more like $10k I'm kind of :aintcare: on fuel costs, and at this point in life I'm not really hauling furniture around anymore so the hatch isn't as vital. It does have a trunk pass-through that I could use for my hockey sticks which is all I really need.

Starting from $10k, it can't really depreciate much more as long as it runs and has a good title. It'll likely always be worth $5k, so the main cost would be fuel. :plac: :math: says I can't afford not to buy one.
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fledonfoot wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:13 pm
Apex wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:59 pm https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=GTI

Real pricing on this? :amazing:

:plac: but it's black...
It's close. VW has nuts cash on the hood - close to $4k in unadvertised dealer cash, a $1500 cash rebate OR 0% financing, and about $1500 of markup in the car. Score one for $1000 under invoice before incentives and you're there.
Dang... :dill: is a :dill:
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Apex wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:36 pm
fledonfoot wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:13 pm

It's close. VW has nuts cash on the hood - close to $4k in unadvertised dealer cash, a $1500 cash rebate OR 0% financing, and about $1500 of markup in the car. Score one for $1000 under invoice before incentives and you're there.
Dang... :dill: is a :dill:
At least on autotrader there is only one :manuel: sport advertised cheap like that, but it certainly is cheap:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=GTI

$22.9k after their "processing fee" - Dat depreciation :doe:

$33k WRX likely ends up costing the same to own. :flaccid:
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troyguitar wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:26 pm
D Griff wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:48 pm

The RX8 is underrated. It's a real four seater car that's "refined" enough for someone like you or me (nicer than a :poorvette: inside). It's a great handling car and the motor is neat. Reliability scared me away and I got the C5, but otherwise I probably would've bought one.
My main concerns when I first shopped them in ~2013 were high fuel costs and the lack of fold-down rear seats, but that was when it was $15-20k for a nice later year one... now that they're more like $10k I'm kind of :aintcare: on fuel costs, and at this point in life I'm not really hauling furniture around anymore so the hatch isn't as vital. It does have a trunk pass-through that I could use for my hockey sticks which is all I really need.

Starting from $10k, it can't really depreciate much more as long as it runs and has a good title. It'll likely always be worth $5k, so the main cost would be fuel. :plac: :math: says I can't afford not to buy one.
Probably true that it wouldn't drop below $5k or so, especially with whatever the special sporty edition is called. Fuel will be bad but likely no worse than a :poorvette: .

:doit:

The Spyder seems like a safer bet as far as likely being more reliable but are RX8s really as bad as they're known for being? :popcorn:
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VW's are the best worst cars for us who can't commit. They tick all the boxes, but the depreciation is so terrible that when it's traded in a year or two because of "life changes" or whatever :bs: we construct to justify :plac: that you lose your ass.

I would not get another VW. No way. Even though I like them a lot.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Street where I parked got egged. I saw about 12 cars with egg on them and numerous houses with egg goo. My car got bombed. I got the majority of it off but looking for some recommendations here....

Should I take it to get detailed ASAP like today or tomorrow? Do I need to use something other than quick detailer to get it off?

I thought egging was a suburb only thing :sad: In the city it's usually slashed tires or knocked off side mirrors which doesn't happen in my hood.
Last edited by Johnny_P on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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There's a place called JoJo's Detailing that gets pretty stellar reviews on yelp and they apparently can set up PDR.

I might just :wasteful: on that.

My poor car :sad:
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troyguitar wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:26 pm
D Griff wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:48 pm

The RX8 is underrated. It's a real four seater car that's "refined" enough for someone like you or me (nicer than a :poorvette: inside). It's a great handling car and the motor is neat. Reliability scared me away and I got the C5, but otherwise I probably would've bought one.
My main concerns when I first shopped them in ~2013 were high fuel costs and the lack of fold-down rear seats, but that was when it was $15-20k for a nice later year one... now that they're more like $10k I'm kind of :aintcare: on fuel costs, and at this point in life I'm not really hauling furniture around anymore so the hatch isn't as vital. It does have a trunk pass-through that I could use for my hockey sticks which is all I really need.

Starting from $10k, it can't really depreciate much more as long as it runs and has a good title. It'll likely always be worth $5k, so the main cost would be fuel. :plac: :math: says I can't afford not to buy one.
They're cheap af and I like these cars a lot. :doit: It's a special car. You have the 3 for hauling furniture and stuff.
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Johnny_P wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:02 am Street where I parked got egged. I saw about 12 cars with egg on them and numerous houses with egg goo. My car got bombed. I got the majority of it off but looking for some recommendations here....

Should I take it to get detailed ASAP like today or tomorrow? Do I need to use something other than quick detailer to get it off?

I thought egging was a suburb only thing :sad: In the city it's usually slashed tires or knocked off side mirrors which doesn't happen in my hood.
You just want to get the shit off ASAP by any method. Quick detailer should be sufficient...or a quarter wash.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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