Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

Brothers of brub and brap, this is your safe space.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Detroit wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:38 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:31 pm On a more serious note I wonder how the customer service is at the Fiat dealershits.
Jeep/Chrysler/RAM is notoriously ABYSMAL. At least in my area.
Can't imagine it's any better...which will prove to be a major issue with Alfa assuming they every get seriously off the ground.

I sat in a Giulia at the Detroit auto show. Felt insanely cheap inside compared to a BMW or Audi. I really don't see how it's going to compete with cheap interiors, horrific reliability, and awful service.
299 a month and 3k down :like:
User avatar
Desertbreh
Chief Master Sirloin
Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 16807
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:31 am
Location: Beyond Thunderdome

It IS a good looking sedan, IMHO. with cheap lease option per Max, that's all you need.
Detroit wrote:Buy 911s instead of diamonds.
Johnny_P wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:21 pm Earn it and burn it, Val.
max225 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 5:35 pm Yes it's a cool car. But prepare the lube/sawdust.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:38 pm
max225 wrote:
Yep, nothing like dropping 40k on a brand new fiat and popping the motor by 30k miles.
This whole ... "think of a new car with a tune" attitude is completely not understandable to me.

BUY THE BETTER CAR, if you don't like it as it sits. These tooners come and go quicker than you can say Fix it again Tony.
Which better car? MX5/Fiata are the only tiny sports cars on the market here. Anything else is hundreds of lbs heavier and bigger.
Anything is better than a tuned Fiat for 40k.
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:41 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:38 pm Which better car? MX5/Fiata are the only tiny sports cars on the market here. Anything else is hundreds of lbs heavier and bigger.
Anything is better than a tuned Fiat for 40k.
Which 2400 lb sports coupe with real ground clearance, real visibility, nice seats, etc. would you buy instead?
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:44 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:41 pm

Anything is better than a tuned Fiat for 40k.
Which 2400 lb sports coupe with real ground clearance, real visibility, nice seats, etc. would you buy instead?
That's not the point. The point is not to tune it. Or you might as well look for a used Elise, which will be even lighter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Lotus-Eli ... ad&vxp=mtr
Last edited by max225 on Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MexicanYarisTK
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 9978
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:14 am
Drives: An Okinowa Cruiseship
Location: 6 miles north of Sleepy Joes House & 5 miles from Bosphorus Channel

max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:26 pm
Johnny_P wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:57 pm

https://shopeurocompulsion.net/blogs/dy ... no-testing

Looks like 190-200 WHP with a tune. Add an intake and other shit and you could get a lot more. Would probably be a barrel of fun.
190-200 WHP out of a 1.4 liter italian motor. What could possibly go wrong.
Not to mention, people will bitch on forums saying fiat refuses to fix the engine with warranty because of tune :rolleyes:
Well Duh...
Nephew of a :plac: a few first gen immigrant on DFD, resident turk, and ex nazi egg lover now driving a middle class mom mobile.
User avatar
MexicanYarisTK
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 9978
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:14 am
Drives: An Okinowa Cruiseship
Location: 6 miles north of Sleepy Joes House & 5 miles from Bosphorus Channel

max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:45 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:44 pm

Which 2400 lb sports coupe with real ground clearance, real visibility, nice seats, etc. would you buy instead?
That's not the point. The point is not to tune it. Or you might as well look for a used Elise, which will be even lighter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Lotus-Eli ... ad&vxp=mtr
:dat: and also on a car that is known for not exactly what you would call a reliable durable powertrain.
Nephew of a :plac: a few first gen immigrant on DFD, resident turk, and ex nazi egg lover now driving a middle class mom mobile.
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:45 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:44 pm

Which 2400 lb sports coupe with real ground clearance, real visibility, nice seats, etc. would you buy instead?
That's not the point. The point is not to tune it. Or you might as well look for a used Elise, which will be even lighter.
...and be uncomfortable plus impossible to see out of with almost no trunk. Not at all comparable.

I want to know what car I can buy that is BETTER without being also worse in any way, assume an INFINITE budget if that makes it easier for you.
Last edited by troyguitar on Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

[user not found] wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:48 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:31 pm On a more serious note I wonder how the customer service is at the Fiat dealershits.
Jeep/Chrysler/RAM is notoriously ABYSMAL. At least in my area.
Ask Sno about her experience at the Fiat dealershit...

Oh wait.

:triggered:
:wat: happened?
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:48 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:45 pm

That's not the point. The point is not to tune it. Or you might as well look for a used Elise, which will be even lighter.
...and be uncomfortable plus impossible to see out of with almost no trunk. Not at all comparable.

I want to know what car I can buy that is BETTER without being also worse in any way, assume an INFINITE budget if that makes it easier for you.
What do you define as "worse" ? Would more weight be worse if it has way more power and grip and storage?
Are you going to cling to the 2400lbs and say everything else is worse if it weighs more?
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:51 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:48 pm

...and be uncomfortable plus impossible to see out of with almost no trunk. Not at all comparable.

I want to know what car I can buy that is BETTER without being also worse in any way, assume an INFINITE budget if that makes it easier for you.
What do you define as "worse" ? Would more weight be worse? If it has way more power and grip and storage?
Bigger (particularly in wheelbase and width) and heavier are definitely worse, otherwise the answer to everything is :poorvette:

I do think that the right optioned Cayman would likely be better overall despite being 500+ lbs heavier, but also a lot more money comparing new to new.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

http://us.caterhamcars.com/

Caterham is lighter and far more capable at a track...

Gayman is more refined and far more capable as well straight out of the box

Obviously there is NO EXACT copy of the miata with more power anywhere. But that isn't that point. The original point was to not NOT tune a 40k fiat.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Desertbreh wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:40 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:38 pm
Can't imagine it's any better...which will prove to be a major issue with Alfa assuming they every get seriously off the ground.

I sat in a Giulia at the Detroit auto show. Felt insanely cheap inside compared to a BMW or Audi. I really don't see how it's going to compete with cheap interiors, horrific reliability, and awful service.
C/D jerked it big time to the Giulia, put it on 10 best list.
Yea, well...take that with a grain of salt.

:triggered:

I challenge anyone to go sit in a Giulia and tell me it feels just as nice as a BMW or Audi inside.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Then there is the Alfa 4C if you wanted to stick with the same shitty marque family.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

Desertbreh wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:41 pm It IS a good looking sedan, IMHO. with cheap lease option per Max, that's all you need.
Can't deny the looks. It is secks.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

Detroit wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:55 pm
Desertbreh wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:40 pm

C/D jerked it big time to the Giulia, put it on 10 best list.
Yea, well...take that with a grain of salt.

:triggered:

I challenge anyone to go sit in a Giulia and tell me it feels just as nice as a BMW or Audi inside.
It doesn't at all. It literally feels closer to a civic than a BMW. Not that a modern civic is BAD. I actually like em inside... but at 40-90k i'd expect something nicer.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

[user not found] wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:56 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:55 pm Then there is the Alfa 4C if you wanted to stick with the same shitty marque family.
I love the 4C. Street legal racekor.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-Alfa-Rome ... Jm&vxp=mtr
42k
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

[user not found] wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:56 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:55 pm Then there is the Alfa 4C if you wanted to stick with the same shitty marque family.
I love the 4C. Street legal racekor.
I would like to drive one, but assume it suffers typical supercar problems. Too loud, too low, too hard to see out of, no storage... i.e. useless as an actual car.

The MX5/Fiata manages to be lighter than the 4C while also being useful as a real car (and costs half as much). That's what makes it great.
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:54 pm http://us.caterhamcars.com/

Caterham is lighter and far more capable at a track...

Gayman is more refined and far more capable as well straight out of the box

Obviously there is NO EXACT copy of the miata with more power anywhere. But that isn't that point. The original point was to not NOT tune a 40k fiat.
So rather than getting what they want because nothing else does what this does, you suggest people instead spend tens of thousands of dollars on something that is not what they want?

:butwhy:
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:05 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:54 pm http://us.caterhamcars.com/

Caterham is lighter and far more capable at a track...

Gayman is more refined and far more capable as well straight out of the box

Obviously there is NO EXACT copy of the miata with more power anywhere. But that isn't that point. The original point was to not NOT tune a 40k fiat.
So rather than getting what they want because nothing else does what this does, you suggest people instead spend tens of thousands of dollars on something that is not what they want?

:butwhy:
Because tuning a brand new 40k vehicle is :fullretard:
But hey that’s just my opinion man
User avatar
MexicanYarisTK
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 9978
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:14 am
Drives: An Okinowa Cruiseship
Location: 6 miles north of Sleepy Joes House & 5 miles from Bosphorus Channel

[user not found] wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:56 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:55 pm Then there is the Alfa 4C if you wanted to stick with the same shitty marque family.
I love the 4C. Street legal racekor.
racekor and giant go kart. But no :manuel: atleast it's Dual clutch I believe.
Nephew of a :plac: a few first gen immigrant on DFD, resident turk, and ex nazi egg lover now driving a middle class mom mobile.
User avatar
ChrisoftheNorth
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47112
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:10 am
Drives: 4R

max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:56 pm
Detroit wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:55 pm
Yea, well...take that with a grain of salt.

:triggered:

I challenge anyone to go sit in a Giulia and tell me it feels just as nice as a BMW or Audi inside.
It doesn't at all. It literally feels closer to a civic than a BMW. Not that a modern civic is BAD. I actually like em inside... but at 40-90k i'd expect something nicer.
Exactly. Nowhere near on par with the competition at the price point.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
User avatar
troyguitar
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Command Chief Master Sirloin
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 pm
Drives: Trek Domane
Location: Swamp

max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:17 pm
troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:05 pm

So rather than getting what they want because nothing else does what this does, you suggest people instead spend tens of thousands of dollars on something that is not what they want?

:butwhy:
Because tuning a brand new 40k vehicle is :fullretard:
But hey that’s just my opinion man
I think buying a new one is :fullretard: period, regardless of tuning. That goes for the MX5 too and most other cars, unless you're prepared to put 300k miles on the thing. A used one in 2-3 years for $20k though? That might be worthwhile.
User avatar
MexicanYarisTK
Senior Master Sirloin
Senior Master Sirloin
Posts: 9978
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:14 am
Drives: An Okinowa Cruiseship
Location: 6 miles north of Sleepy Joes House & 5 miles from Bosphorus Channel

troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:27 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:17 pm

Because tuning a brand new 40k vehicle is :fullretard:
But hey that’s just my opinion man
I think buying a new one is :fullretard: period, regardless of tuning. That goes for the MX5 too and most other cars, unless you're prepared to put 300k miles on the thing. A used one in 2-3 years for $20k though? That might be worthwhile.
Then how are you gonna buy even slightly used, when there are no people buying/financing new to begin with.

But that said, for me it's either lease a new car or finance/buy slightly used (including CPO), you can get a new car smell with just 5-6k miles and take advantage of someones placprofit. If it's a Wrangler or Subaru on the other hand, i'd get new period, cause those things hardly depreciates unless you opt for like a 60k+ mileage car.
Last edited by MexicanYarisTK on Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nephew of a :plac: a few first gen immigrant on DFD, resident turk, and ex nazi egg lover now driving a middle class mom mobile.
User avatar
max225
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Chief Master Sirloin of the Wasteful Steak
Posts: 42432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 am
Drives: Taco+ Bavarian lemon

troyguitar wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:27 pm
max225 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:17 pm

Because tuning a brand new 40k vehicle is :fullretard:
But hey that’s just my opinion man
I think buying a new one is :fullretard: period, regardless of tuning. That goes for the MX5 too and most other cars, unless you're prepared to put 300k miles on the thing. A used one in 2-3 years for $20k though? That might be worthwhile.
No denying that. There are only a few handful of exceptions to this rule.

I have only bought one new vehicle in my life. And got lucky in the end, otherwise it would have cost me close to what the 335i is running me. :butwhy:
Locked