Car Talk 2: Un-American Motor Company.

[fledonfoot]

I think investments in public transit would be very wise. Many cities have terrible traffic and growth is being restricted because of it.

I disagree.

This country has a huge cultural difference when it comes to public transport.

Buses are for the poor.

When I lived in England I lived in a small country village of ~1500 people about 25 miles outside of Manchester. Even then we had 2-3 buses an hour that would have you to the nearest small town within 30 minutes and Manchester in about an hour. Or another bus to the next town over to the train station and head anywhere.

Even somehow if you could just drop down that level of coverage out of nowhere regardless of cost, it wouldnt be used anywhere near it’s potential.

[Johnny_P]

NJ raised the gas tax 23 cents per gallon over a year ago.

Roads are still garbage and potholes worse than ever.

Gas tax ain't going towards fixing roads.

NJ is using fewer federal dollars to fix their roads, more state funds. Which is good because they can spend the money easier if they control it all than if they need to apply for federal grants.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

I think investments in public transit would be very wise. Many cities have terrible traffic and growth is being restricted because of it.

Of course networked pods could alter this significantly. Podtrains could move a ton of people quickly and efficiently if they're all talking to each other and drafting close to each other.

Pods just won't happen unless human driving is banned or they have their own lanes to ride in.

And at that point, why not just build more lightrail?

I'd also consider taking the bus more if I wasn't afraid of getting stabbed.

[Johnny_P]

I think investments in public transit would be very wise. Many cities have terrible traffic and growth is being restricted because of it.

I disagree.

This country has a huge cultural difference when it comes to public transport.

Buses are for the poor.

When I lived in England I lived in a small country village of ~1500 people about 25 miles outside of Manchester. Even then we had 2-3 buses an hour that would have you to the nearest small town within 30 minutes and Manchester in about an hour. Or another bus to the next town over to the train station and head anywhere.

Even somehow if you could just drop down that level of coverage out of nowhere regardless of cost, it wouldnt be used anywhere near it’s potential.

Well take Philly
Regional rail is typically running at max capacity during rush hour. So much so that SEPTA is purchasing 40+ double decker train cars to plunk down on their busiest routes expected to be in service in 2019. Ever been to Suburban Station at rush hour? It's a madhouse and trains are typically standing room only.
Similar story with the trolley system. They're analyzing purchasing double length trolleys because the current 1981 Kawasaki cars are maxed out, and reducing the amount of trolley stops so it moves faster. Same with buses, reducing them to stopping every other street instead of every street so they move quicker and make the service better.

So with regional rail... Sit at the station, train comes up, blows right past the station because there's no room, now you're late for work waiting for the next train hoping you get a seat. Nah, I'll drive instead. Which leads to further road congestion.

Philly at least doesn't have the ability to just add lanes to highways since they're space limited. But they do have the ability to expand rail service, streamline stations, etc. They'll need to do something quick because Comcast CTC is going to come online next year, Schyulkill Yards is going to start building out soon, and the city's population continues to grow. And traffic has been growing with it. People need reliable ways to get to work.

[Johnny_P]

I think investments in public transit would be very wise. Many cities have terrible traffic and growth is being restricted because of it.

Of course networked pods could alter this significantly. Podtrains could move a ton of people quickly and efficiently if they're all talking to each other and drafting close to each other.

Pods just won't happen unless human driving is banned or they have their own lanes to ride in.

And at that point, why not just build more lightrail?

I'd also consider taking the bus more if I wasn't afraid of getting stabbed.

Light rail works really well.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Pods just won't happen unless human driving is banned or they have their own lanes to ride in.

And at that point, why not just build more lightrail?

I'd also consider taking the bus more if I wasn't afraid of getting stabbed.

Light rail works really well.

I've ridden the Q Line in Detroit a number of times to go from Downtown to Midtown. Other than the fact that they need more trains (they can take FOREVER to come), it's 5/7. If they extended it up to my city, I'd ride it nearly every day.

[Johnny_P]

Light rail works really well.

I've ridden the Q Line in Detroit a number of times to go from Downtown to Midtown. Other than the fact that they need more trains (they can take FOREVER to come), it's 5/7. If they extended it up to my city, I'd ride it nearly every day.

The Q Line is basically what they want to turn our trolleys into.



DING DING! These are durable af but are super outdated and don't have much capacity. They move around 100k people/day though.

http://www.phillytrib.com/news/report-d ... e029f.html

[Johnny_P]

Here's the 15 Trolley. Refurbished from the 40s. Looks totally killer but these are rather small inside with less capacity than the 80's Kawi cars.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Here's the 15 Trolley. Refurbished from the 40s. Looks totally killer but these are rather small inside with less capacity than the 80's Kawi cars.

That thing still runs people? That's pretty neat...in theory.

Those 80's cars are :poverty:

[fledonfoot]

Pods just won't happen unless human driving is banned or they have their own lanes to ride in.

And at that point, why not just build more lightrail?

I'd also consider taking the bus more if I wasn't afraid of getting stabbed.

Light rail works really well.

True. I was focusing more on the bus side of things.

[Johnny_P]

Light rail works really well.

True. I was focusing more on the bus side of things.

Buses have been getting better but still have a huge negative stigma even in Philly.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

True. I was focusing more on the bus side of things.

Buses have been getting better but still have a huge negative stigma even in Philly.

I think they do everywhere in the US.

[max225]

Pods will win because we don’t live in China. We live in the us, where it takes the .gov 10 years to decided which type of train to use and another 20 to roll out new train cars. Meanwhile pods are going to be rolling in line with customer demand. And if they make them profitable it’ll be a super quick adoption

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Pods will win because we don’t live in China. We live in the us, where it takes the .gov 10 years to decided which type of train to use and another 20 to roll out new train cars. Meanwhile pods are going to be rolling in line with customer demand. And if they make them profitable it’ll be a super quick adoption

[max225]

They certainly choose to heavily incetivize mass transit and penalize owning a car. US seems opposite of this. Easy af and cheap (relatively) to own a vehicle, and mass transit systems are typically in disrepair, beat, smelly, never on time, etc.

I was surprised by how many people actually did own cars in Germany. But further, how nice driving was. The roads are fantastic. Drivers are unbelievably good/attentive. Traffic was minimal. I wish we'd go to a European style. Amp up public trans and make cars harder to own.

That said, Europe is laid out way differently than the US, so it'll pretty much never happen. I would love to see a higher gas tax to make our roads drivable, doe.

Gas tax is 60 cents a gallon in Cali, highest in the nation. Still have shit roads, tons of poor on the roads etc. get that communist European thinking out of here. Roads are nice in Germany because they don’t blow 900 billion a year on wars. Same goes for schools and social programs. Gas taxes won’t fix shit, just a spit in the bucket

[max225]

Pods will win because we don’t live in China. We live in the us, where it takes the .gov 10 years to decided which type of train to use and another 20 to roll out new train cars. Meanwhile pods are going to be rolling in line with customer demand. And if they make them profitable it’ll be a super quick adoption

Two years ago half this forum didn’t know what an Uber is and said they would never take one or that it would come to their town.

And look around now...

Times are changing

[Johnny_P]

Here's the 15 Trolley. Refurbished from the 40s. Looks totally killer but these are rather small inside with less capacity than the 80's Kawi cars.

That thing still runs people? That's pretty neat...in theory.

Those 80's cars are :poverty:

Yeah I like the 15. They were refreshed not long ago so they're pretty decent inside and all. The Kawasaki ones are workhorses but they look poverty and sketchy. There's technically nothing wrong with them though.

[Johnny_P]

I was surprised by how many people actually did own cars in Germany. But further, how nice driving was. The roads are fantastic. Drivers are unbelievably good/attentive. Traffic was minimal. I wish we'd go to a European style. Amp up public trans and make cars harder to own.

That said, Europe is laid out way differently than the US, so it'll pretty much never happen. I would love to see a higher gas tax to make our roads drivable, doe.

Gas tax is 60 cents a gallon in Cali, highest in the nation. Still have shit roads, tons of poor on the roads etc. get that communist European thinking out of here. Roads are nice in Germany because they don’t blow 900 billion a year on wars. Same goes for schools and social programs. Gas taxes won’t fix shit, just a spit in the bucket

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Two years ago half this forum didn’t know what an Uber is and said they would never take one or that it would come to their town.

And look around now...

Times are changing

Indeed, just not as fast as you see in your bubble.

There's still many places that don't have Uber/Lyft. And many that do don't have it as a big deal. I looked for this morning to see if I could take a Lyft to the office. The wait for a car was 50 minutes and the cost was going to be $15. I live 10 miles from my office in Downtown Detroit.

Yea, no.

[coogles]

I think investments in public transit would be very wise. Many cities have terrible traffic and growth is being restricted because of it.

Of course networked pods could alter this significantly. Podtrains could move a ton of people quickly and efficiently if they're all talking to each other and drafting close to each other.

Pods just won't happen unless human driving is banned or they have their own lanes to ride in.

And at that point, why not just build more lightrail?

I'd also consider taking the bus more if I wasn't afraid of getting stabbed.

Pods don't solve the biggest problem with cars in urban areas: geometry. You can only get so many pods into a section of road 3 lanes wide and a block long. Buses or train cars in that same space will hold 10x the number of passengers, even if you get 4 people per pod or whatever Not only that, but pods - assuming they aren't parked - will only add to the traffic on the roads. When someone isn't in one they'll still have to drive around looking for a fare, it isn't likely they'll just park on the street when not in use and they won't use existing parking structures. For every 10 miles they carry a passenger they'll actually have to move 12, 13, 14, 15+ miles. Compare that to someone who drives from the driveway to parking garage and then doesn't move the car again until the evening commute home, you could actually see congestion increase with widespread pod adoption.

In major urban areas, public transport will still be essential for mobility. Try to move everyone in NYC or Chicago from the subways/L to pods and those cities would be fucked.

[coogles]

Here's the 15 Trolley. Refurbished from the 40s. Looks totally killer but these are rather small inside with less capacity than the 80's Kawi cars.

That's awesome.

[max225]

Two years ago half this forum didn’t know what an Uber is and said they would never take one or that it would come to their town.

And look around now...

Times are changing

Indeed, just not as fast as you see in your bubble.

There's still many places that don't have Uber/Lyft. And many that do don't have it as a big deal. I looked for this morning to see if I could take a Lyft to the office. The wait for a car was 50 minutes and the cost was going to be $15. I live 10 miles from my office in Downtown Detroit.

Yea, no.

Taking an uber to the office is like coming into a Silverado option content 2020 meeting with the CEO while wearing a BUILT FORD TOUGH shirt. You are the last place I'd expect that to happen, just like I may be in a major bubble you're in the anti bubble. You guys should be running CRUZE cars all over Detroit though... instead of SF.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Indeed, just not as fast as you see in your bubble.

There's still many places that don't have Uber/Lyft. And many that do don't have it as a big deal. I looked for this morning to see if I could take a Lyft to the office. The wait for a car was 50 minutes and the cost was going to be $15. I live 10 miles from my office in Downtown Detroit.

Yea, no.

Taking an uber to the office is like coming into a Silverado option content 2020 meeting with the CEO while wearing a BUILT FORD TOUGH shirt. You are the last place I'd expect that to happen, just like I may be in a major bubble you're in the anti bubble. You guys should be running CRUZE cars all over Detroit though... instead of SF.

The Cruise automation cars are running around here too. Mostly around the technical center just north of the city.

[dtraill27]

PA doesn't need to raise the gas tax. They raised it 50 cents in the past 8 years. They need to use the revenues for actual road repair and not using it as a bandaid fund for the PA state police since you have all these local municipalities folding their municipal police coverage to save money and opting for state police coverage at no cost.

For reference this is a pretty busy state road right outside my town. It's ridiculous

[coogles]

PA doesn't need to raise the gas tax. They raised it 50 cents in the past 8 years. They need to use the revenues for actual road repair and not using it as a bandaid fund for the PA state police since you have all these local municipalities folding their municipal police coverage to save money and opting for state police coverage at no cost.

For reference this is a pretty busy state road right outside my town. It's ridiculous

Dem rattles, doe.