Have you refinanced during the 'VID?

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D Griff
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Hey all. I have heard tell of many people getting some great rates during COVID. I was curious if anyone here on DFD has experience with this? If so:

What rate did you get over what term?
What were your closing costs?
Do you have to get the house appraised?

We are currently at 3.75% and owe about $280K. It seems many are getting about a full point lower than where we're at, which is rather compelling, but I am hesitant due to the upfront costs we may incur. I feel that we will likely be out of this house within five years or so, so I'm unsure if it's really worth pursuing. I don't care in the least about lowering my monthly payment, but would live to save some overall cash/have more equity in the crib. We could also likely drop our PMI with refinance - the value has gone up 10-15% and we also have cash we could throw at the house. We originally out 10% down as the rates/PMI were about the same and we figured it would be nice to not blow the vast majority of our liquid holdings.
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I almost always to a 5yr term and it serves me well. I'm at 2.49% and locked in last October. It's probably lower, like 2.1% RN. My goal is ALWAYS to smash my debt openings as fast as possible so there is a lot less to re-fi by the time my 5yr renewal comes due. I'm not exactly wired the same as most people when it comes to risk taking and lean on the medium to high risk side if I had to judge it.
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Can't you get rid of PMI with just an appraisal and maybe an additional lump sum payment if necessary?
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Tarspin wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:49 am I almost always to a 5yr term and it serves me well. I'm at 2.49% and locked in last October. It's probably lower, like 2.1% RN. My goal is ALWAYS to smash my debt openings as fast as possible so there is a lot less to re-fi by the time my 5yr renewal comes due. I'm not exactly wired the same as most people when it comes to risk taking and lean on the medium to high risk side if I had to judge it.
I am not really convinced that pumping more cash into my house is necessarily the best investment, I would probably be better served to invest or buy more property, but I also am sort of fundamentally opposed to buying rental properties for my own sanity as well as what it does to society (basically keep the poor poor and make me richer). :iono: though.

Those are some really good rates :doe: , amazed that you got that pre-'VID!
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I'll get airboat MacGyver in here, I believe he just did a refi.
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troyguitar wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:56 am Can't you get rid of PMI with just an appraisal and maybe an additional lump sum payment if necessary?
Yes, but you have to pay to appraise the property and the PMI isn't much money, so :notsure: if it's really worth it without lumping in a better rate. We could've done 20 down to begin with, but I was overly cautious in wanting to keep cash in the bank and wasn't super phased by the $35/month to have that privilege.
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I'm in the process right now. They must be fucking swamped, because I filled out my paperwork with Aimloan.com on Sept 8th, and then sent several follow ups on it on Sept 17th, and then to a separate loan officer on Sept 25th. So nearly 20 days of dead space where I couldn't get in touch with these damn people.

Current home value is $130K. I'm 5 years into a 30 year mortgage @ 4.25% and owe about $111K~
My current monthly mortgage is about $950/mo, that's with PMI included, which I think is $122/mo. So once PMI is gone I should be paying $828/mo
I looked at their rates, and monthly numbers and decided that since I've got 25 years left, I didn't want to lose time by refinancing for another 30, but pick an inbetween where I'm paying less monthly with less total years, but still pay what I'm currently paying monthly so I can knock it out faster. I could go with the 10 year, but I don't want a higher mortgage. With work being slow right now, I can't afford to put more into a mortgage.

These are the rates for my situation. Keep in mind this is asking for about $116K total and with a 815+ credit score.
https://www.aimloan.com/programs/get-ra ... e%e2%80%89

I decided to shorten it from 25 years left, to 20, and lower my payments from $828/mo @ 4.25% to $669/mo @ 3.125%
I'm not counting PMI in this because I'm nearing having 20% equity so I planned on getting it taken off as soon as I can. I believe I can get my house appraised higher since 1) we did a handful of things to it when we bought it, and updated it, and 2) because the examples the previous appraiser used seemed low. We found out that the house next door to us is the EXACT same floorplan and layout and sold for significantly higher, so I plan on bringing that up to the appraiser so he can use that to help compare the market and area.

So in a nutshell, I could even drop to a 10 year loan and pay about an extra $100 a month with a rate of 2.75%, but I want to drop my monthly payments so that I can 1) put more on the house if I wanted and/or 2) take that extra cash to max out my 401K to build it faster.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:31 am Hey all. I have heard tell of many people getting some great rates during COVID. I was curious if anyone here on DFD has experience with this? If so:

What rate did you get over what term?
What were your closing costs?
Do you have to get the house appraised?

We are currently at 3.75% and owe about $280K. It seems many are getting about a full point lower than where we're at, which is rather compelling, but I am hesitant due to the upfront costs we may incur. I feel that we will likely be out of this house within five years or so, so I'm unsure if it's really worth pursuing. I don't care in the least about lowering my monthly payment, but would live to save some overall cash/have more equity in the crib. We could also likely drop our PMI with refinance - the value has gone up 10-15% and we also have cash we could throw at the house. We originally out 10% down as the rates/PMI were about the same and we figured it would be nice to not blow the vast majority of our liquid holdings.
Cutting out PMI and dropping a full point off your mortgage seems worth the upfront cost to me. Even if you’re only there another 5 years. Especially if you keep paying the same amount you are and build up that equity even faster if you can afford to do so.
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Ive been considering it. Our house has appreciated quite a bit, so PMI will get knocked off. Our current rate is 3.75, and I imagine we could get more than a point lower. I did some math the other day and a refi to a 15 year and lower rate will put us really close to our current payment, but with 10 years chopped off the end. Seems worth it. Got so much other shit swirling right now its pretty low priority.
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So, I refinanced in March (closed on the refi just before the lockdown) and did so through Ally. The closing costs were reasonable (I paid $3k out of pocket, $9k in total but $6k was for escrow that I got back after the prior mortgage was paid off) and went from a 4.75 to a 3.25, which had so much savings that I paid my $3k back in 8 months...yes, my mortgage dropped $375/mo, but it's a $330k mortgage. I did get $500 off closing costs (which I applied to lower the rate a bit) as a current Ally customer, but I will say the process was fantastic.

It's all self-directed, you pick your rate, points, closing costs...then they just connect you with an underwriter to finish off the loan. Super easy, but I'd only recommend it if you know what you want (which I did). It's the only place I've worked with that laid everything out easily for you to chose from without talking to a salesperson errr "banker". I never even had to talk to someone on the phone, everything was done digitally. They sent out an appriaser to appraise the place, which all I had to do was show him around the house while he took photos, and they sent a notary to the house to close on the loan, which took 20 minutes of signing.

It doesn't cost anything to see what they offer, but I can't recall when they pull the hard credit inquiry.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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I also wouldn't count on getting a rate significantly below 3%. I've got a 2.89% on the new house, and that's the lowest our broker claims to have seen so far. Usually refis aren't lower than new mortgages.

Still, 3% is fantastic, the payback is just going to be a while if the delta is less than 1ppt.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:18 pm
It doesn't cost anything to see what they offer, but I can't recall when they pull the hard credit inquiry.
Girl handling mine said it's a hard inquiry first, and then it normally takes 40-50 days to close and all that shit and they do a soft one at the end. So when I unfroze my credit for them to pull it I gave them a solid 2 months + 1 week for it to lock itself back down into freeze mode.
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Acid666 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:37 pm
Detroit wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:18 pm
It doesn't cost anything to see what they offer, but I can't recall when they pull the hard credit inquiry.
Girl handling mine said it's a hard inquiry first, and then it normally takes 40-50 days to close and all that shit and they do a soft one at the end. So when I unfroze my credit for them to pull it I gave them a solid 2 months + 1 week for it to lock itself back down into freeze mode.
Yea, this sounds right.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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We just locked in 2.75% and knocked it down to a 15 year from 25 left on a 30. Our payment goes up $150 to save 10 years! And the PMI goes bye bye. Closing costs under a G.
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Irish wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:02 pm We just locked in 2.75% and knocked it down to a 15 year from 25 left on a 30. Our payment goes up $150 to save 10 years! And the PMI goes bye bye. Closing costs under a G.
:mindblown: :impressive: Congrats man!
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Irish wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:02 pm We just locked in 2.75% and knocked it down to a 15 year from 25 left on a 30. Our payment goes up $150 to save 10 years! And the PMI goes bye bye. Closing costs under a G.
Damn, nice man! That is the kind of info I'm looking for, $1K closing costs should be made up in a year or less in most cases, that is definitely worth it.
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D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:09 pm
Tarspin wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:49 am I almost always to a 5yr term and it serves me well. I'm at 2.49% and locked in last October. It's probably lower, like 2.1% RN. My goal is ALWAYS to smash my debt openings as fast as possible so there is a lot less to re-fi by the time my 5yr renewal comes due. I'm not exactly wired the same as most people when it comes to risk taking and lean on the medium to high risk side if I had to judge it.
I am not really convinced that pumping more cash into my house is necessarily the best investment, I would probably be better served to invest or buy more property, but I also am sort of fundamentally opposed to buying rental properties for my own sanity as well as what it does to society (basically keep the poor poor and make me richer). :iono: though.

Those are some really good rates :doe: , amazed that you got that pre-'VID!
With the way the economy is going right now, id probably wait for housing market to tank, buy it, then sell it when it goes back up. Buying rental properties is a great idea, my dad has thought about doing the same at some point in 2021 and waiting for the right time to take advantage of it. My grandparents also have an expensive property (due to appraised value) that my mom is also partnered with for rent in Istanbul that’s essentially in a :waxer: neighborhood since it’s close to a city center and in a more refined area, so it got appraised substantially, and use the money to get two cheaper properties that are pretty decent.
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MexicanYarisTK wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:00 am
D Griff wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:09 pm

I am not really convinced that pumping more cash into my house is necessarily the best investment, I would probably be better served to invest or buy more property, but I also am sort of fundamentally opposed to buying rental properties for my own sanity as well as what it does to society (basically keep the poor poor and make me richer). :iono: though.

Those are some really good rates :doe: , amazed that you got that pre-'VID!
With the way the economy is going right now, id probably wait for housing market to tank, buy it, then sell it when it goes back up. Buying rental properties is a great idea, my dad has thought about doing the same at some point in 2021 and waiting for the right time to take advantage of it. My grandparents also have an expensive property (due to appraised value) that my mom is also partnered with for rent in Istanbul that’s essentially in a :waxer: neighborhood since it’s close to a city center and in a more refined area, so it got appraised substantially, and use the money to get two cheaper properties that are pretty decent.
:iono: I don't really see things tanking at any point in the near future, evidently recession in this country now equals everything going up in price by 20%.

Rental property can definitely be a good investment if done right but I have no interest in it personally. For one, I don't really want to manage a property, secondly I feel like all of these rich whites buying rental properties is just furthering that gap between rich/poor, not really something I want to be a part of. All of these people my age that I know here with money are buying up properties left and right to rent and that's half the reason why prices are so damn ridiculous.
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D Griff wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:16 am
MexicanYarisTK wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:00 am

With the way the economy is going right now, id probably wait for housing market to tank, buy it, then sell it when it goes back up. Buying rental properties is a great idea, my dad has thought about doing the same at some point in 2021 and waiting for the right time to take advantage of it. My grandparents also have an expensive property (due to appraised value) that my mom is also partnered with for rent in Istanbul that’s essentially in a :waxer: neighborhood since it’s close to a city center and in a more refined area, so it got appraised substantially, and use the money to get two cheaper properties that are pretty decent.
:iono: I don't really see things tanking at any point in the near future, evidently recession in this country now equals everything going up in price by 20%.

Rental property can definitely be a good investment if done right but I have no interest in it personally. For one, I don't really want to manage a property, secondly I feel like all of these rich whites buying rental properties is just furthering that gap between rich/poor, not really something I want to be a part of. All of these people my age that I know here with money are buying up properties left and right to rent and that's half the reason why prices are so damn ridiculous.
I've done the math on rentals, unless you buy a bunch, I don't really see the payoff. And it's a lot of hassle to manage these things, so :noture: I know people say it's about building wealth in things, but I guess I'm just not that motivated to amass tons of wealth to deal with renting properties.

Also agreed that it's really just widening the gap. If rich people buy up all the affordable houses to rent, then poor people never stand a shot at buying a house and accumulating their own wealth. Pretty :disgust: overall really, and it's entirely rooted in greed. You're not helping anyone by buying a house to rent it out.

I also highly doubt things tanking anytime soon. Markets are softening, but COVID didn't tank things, so I'm not sure anything will.
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:11 pm
D Griff wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:16 am

:iono: I don't really see things tanking at any point in the near future, evidently recession in this country now equals everything going up in price by 20%.

Rental property can definitely be a good investment if done right but I have no interest in it personally. For one, I don't really want to manage a property, secondly I feel like all of these rich whites buying rental properties is just furthering that gap between rich/poor, not really something I want to be a part of. All of these people my age that I know here with money are buying up properties left and right to rent and that's half the reason why prices are so damn ridiculous.
I've done the math on rentals, unless you buy a bunch, I don't really see the payoff. And it's a lot of hassle to manage these things, so :noture: I know people say it's about building wealth in things, but I guess I'm just not that motivated to amass tons of wealth to deal with renting properties.

Also agreed that it's really just widening the gap. If rich people buy up all the affordable houses to rent, then poor people never stand a shot at buying a house and accumulating their own wealth. Pretty :disgust: overall really, and it's entirely rooted in greed. You're not helping anyone by buying a house to rent it out.

I also highly doubt things tanking anytime soon. Markets are softening, but COVID didn't tank things, so I'm not sure anything will.
Agreed on all of that. Re: the bolded... I feel like so many people I know here in Charlotte in my age group are just OBSESSED with "building wealth" hence everyone telling me we should buy a rental property. At a certain point, what does it really matter? I can afford everything I want to do as-is. :iono: I put in the max to my 401K, hopefully that's enough to retire but we will probably all burn before that can happen anyway.
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D Griff wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:14 pm
Detroit wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:11 pm
I've done the math on rentals, unless you buy a bunch, I don't really see the payoff. And it's a lot of hassle to manage these things, so :noture: I know people say it's about building wealth in things, but I guess I'm just not that motivated to amass tons of wealth to deal with renting properties.

Also agreed that it's really just widening the gap. If rich people buy up all the affordable houses to rent, then poor people never stand a shot at buying a house and accumulating their own wealth. Pretty :disgust: overall really, and it's entirely rooted in greed. You're not helping anyone by buying a house to rent it out.

I also highly doubt things tanking anytime soon. Markets are softening, but COVID didn't tank things, so I'm not sure anything will.
Agreed on all of that. Re: the bolded... I feel like so many people I know here in Charlotte in my age group are just OBSESSED with "building wealth" hence everyone telling me we should buy a rental property. At a certain point, what does it really matter? I can afford everything I want to do as-is. :iono: I put in the max to my 401K, hopefully that's enough to retire but we will probably all burn before that can happen anyway.
There's two ways to "build wealth" IMO...make more money or spend less money. Most people decide that make more is the only option, and as we've matured in very uncertain environments (08 :nuke: and now COVID) people are clinging to things that "cant' be taken away" to make more money...like rental properties and side hustles. All fine and good for those people, but it's not for everyone.

This varies greatly from person to person, but I've thought a lot about what "security" and "retirement" actually means to me, and realized that I'm much happier spending less money and focusing on life than becoming a slave to always needing to make more and accumulate more. While that's the goal for many, it's not for me.

FWIW, most of the people I know my age are 100% focused on gaining more and building more. Then they come to our house and are :mindblown: :triggered: HOW CAN YOU AFFORD THIS. Well, I can pay the mortgage working at Costco, so "affording" is pretty easy when you live drastically below your means. :triggered:
Desertbreh wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm My guess would be that Chris took some time off because he has read the dialogue on this page 1,345 times and decided to spend some of his free time doing something besides beating a horse to death.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:51 am
D Griff wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:14 pm

Agreed on all of that. Re: the bolded... I feel like so many people I know here in Charlotte in my age group are just OBSESSED with "building wealth" hence everyone telling me we should buy a rental property. At a certain point, what does it really matter? I can afford everything I want to do as-is. :iono: I put in the max to my 401K, hopefully that's enough to retire but we will probably all burn before that can happen anyway.
There's two ways to "build wealth" IMO...make more money or spend less money. Most people decide that make more is the only option, and as we've matured in very uncertain environments (08 :nuke: and now COVID) people are clinging to things that "cant' be taken away" to make more money...like rental properties and side hustles. All fine and good for those people, but it's not for everyone.

This varies greatly from person to person, but I've thought a lot about what "security" and "retirement" actually means to me, and realized that I'm much happier spending less money and focusing on life than becoming a slave to always needing to make more and accumulate more. While that's the goal for many, it's not for me.

FWIW, most of the people I know my age are 100% focused on gaining more and building more. Then they come to our house and are :mindblown: :triggered: HOW CAN YOU AFFORD THIS. Well, I can pay the mortgage working at Costco, so "affording" is pretty easy when you live drastically below your means. :triggered:
I am definitely on the side of the fence of building wealth now while I'm most productive and energetic. My biggest fear with downsizing right now is inflation, whatever cash I can extract from pulling equity out of my home will be devaluing at a faster rate then historically seen (opinion due to gov spending), so I push myself to use the cash i make now to build equity for when i'm old. Cottage rental place in Grand Bend for example will be paid off when I retire, and I can rent it for income at 2040 pricing which will pay the property taxes and put food on the table, or I can sell it at that time and invest the cash into a safe fund that pays monthly dividends.

I don't consider myself to be greedy or anything, it is either this or I put the cash into stocks/funds now. Either way it is outflow, but I'm betting on bricks and mortar, which is proving to be :notwrong: financially. This year the cottage has appreciated $60k and rental income covered 90% of my expenses, no way I would have saved that much or earned it in stocks unless I put 90% of my initial investment in FANG stocks.

Neither perspective is :wrong: from my last few efforts to analyze retirement strategies, so :iono: , can't really hate on people for trying to do what they feel will sustain them in their old age.
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Tarspin wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:20 am
Detroit wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:51 am
There's two ways to "build wealth" IMO...make more money or spend less money. Most people decide that make more is the only option, and as we've matured in very uncertain environments (08 :nuke: and now COVID) people are clinging to things that "cant' be taken away" to make more money...like rental properties and side hustles. All fine and good for those people, but it's not for everyone.

This varies greatly from person to person, but I've thought a lot about what "security" and "retirement" actually means to me, and realized that I'm much happier spending less money and focusing on life than becoming a slave to always needing to make more and accumulate more. While that's the goal for many, it's not for me.

FWIW, most of the people I know my age are 100% focused on gaining more and building more. Then they come to our house and are :mindblown: :triggered: HOW CAN YOU AFFORD THIS. Well, I can pay the mortgage working at Costco, so "affording" is pretty easy when you live drastically below your means. :triggered:
I am definitely on the side of the fence of building wealth now while I'm most productive and energetic. My biggest fear with downsizing right now is inflation, whatever cash I can extract from pulling equity out of my home will be devaluing at a faster rate then historically seen (opinion due to gov spending), so I push myself to use the cash i make now to build equity for when i'm old. Cottage rental place in Grand Bend for example will be paid off when I retire, and I can rent it for income at 2040 pricing which will pay the property taxes and put food on the table, or I can sell it at that time and invest the cash into a safe fund that pays monthly dividends.

I don't consider myself to be greedy or anything, it is either this or I put the cash into stocks/funds now. Either way it is outflow, but I'm betting on bricks and mortar, which is proving to be :notwrong: financially. This year the cottage has appreciated $60k and rental income covered 90% of my expenses, no way I would have saved that much or earned it in stocks unless I put 90% of my initial investment in FANG stocks.

Neither perspective is :wrong: from my last few efforts to analyze retirement strategies, so :iono: , can't really hate on people for trying to do what they feel will sustain them in their old age.
Yep, it entirely comes down to personal strategies and what makes you comfortable. Plus taking into account families and whatnot. For just the wife and I, we don't NEED that much to retire. So we don't see the driving need to accumulate a bunch of wealth to eventually retire.
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Detroit wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:59 am
Tarspin wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:20 am

I am definitely on the side of the fence of building wealth now while I'm most productive and energetic. My biggest fear with downsizing right now is inflation, whatever cash I can extract from pulling equity out of my home will be devaluing at a faster rate then historically seen (opinion due to gov spending), so I push myself to use the cash i make now to build equity for when i'm old. Cottage rental place in Grand Bend for example will be paid off when I retire, and I can rent it for income at 2040 pricing which will pay the property taxes and put food on the table, or I can sell it at that time and invest the cash into a safe fund that pays monthly dividends.

I don't consider myself to be greedy or anything, it is either this or I put the cash into stocks/funds now. Either way it is outflow, but I'm betting on bricks and mortar, which is proving to be :notwrong: financially. This year the cottage has appreciated $60k and rental income covered 90% of my expenses, no way I would have saved that much or earned it in stocks unless I put 90% of my initial investment in FANG stocks.

Neither perspective is :wrong: from my last few efforts to analyze retirement strategies, so :iono: , can't really hate on people for trying to do what they feel will sustain them in their old age.
Yep, it entirely comes down to personal strategies and what makes you comfortable. Plus taking into account families and whatnot. For just the wife and I, we don't NEED that much to retire. So we don't see the driving need to accumulate a bunch of wealth to eventually retire.
In your case we would do the same thing, current house is a four bedroom, so one for each kid, one for our bed, and a spare that has multiple purposes including my wife's WFH office/storage/guest room. It could easily be downsized by 50% if we didn't breed. I guess my point is that it is different strokes for different folks and there is more then one :notwrong: answer/strategy. Dan mentions that it is frustrating to listen to his friends gloat about "building wealth" and how much they are making on property buying McMansions etc, but in my case there is a legit method to my future :wap: -hood. I'm personally fearful of the future either way, the mismanagement of national debt is :disgust: , CAN/USD was 1:1 10 years ago, now its 1.35:1 so I won't be surprised if the U.S. starts planning further debasement and the cycle repeats making my primary currency quickly drop to less buying power in the near future. :iono: man, there's so much to think about and I think we haven't even seen the worst yet.
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