Cucktrek: Making Money Never Felt So Good

[max225]

Wonder what will become of Dodge now that they can't just slap a hellcat engine in every fucking car they make and never update anything.

Stellantice or whoever you spell that new name announced a new global ev platform that they will unveil next year that will feature all kinds of new suvs and muscle cars. They spent like 12 billion on that shit or something. Kind of nuts

[Tar]

Wonder what will become of Dodge now that they can't just slap a hellcat engine in every fucking car they make and never update anything.

Stellantice or whoever you spell that new name announced a new global ev platform that they will unveil next year that will feature all kinds of new suvs and muscle cars. They spent like 12 billion on that shit or something. Kind of nuts

Stellantis, Stallanus?

That's one of the joys of becoming a juggernaut, they can split that 12 billskie with a shitload of brands. I think they'll need to gut the LX/LD/LA plant and put all new shit in there if they want to redesign those vehicles. An almost 20 year run is , and all based on the S-Class chassis designed 10 to 15 years prior to that. Those are some big/heavy cars man.

[max225]

Stellantice or whoever you spell that new name announced a new global ev platform that they will unveil next year that will feature all kinds of new suvs and muscle cars. They spent like 12 billion on that shit or something. Kind of nuts

Stellantis, Stallanus?

That's one of the joys of becoming a juggernaut, they can split that 12 billskie with a shitload of brands. I think they'll need to gut the LX/LD/LA plant and put all new shit in there if they want to redesign those vehicles. An almost 20 year run is , and all based on the S-Class chassis designed 10 to 15 years prior to that. Those are some big/heavy cars man.

Yep the good ol E front S back or whatever they frankensteined. It also had the mb key and a few one mb parts at launch.

These things had a long run… but look at toyota too, the current 4 runner basically goes back to 2005… same with Tacoma … tundra just updated but also 2007. A lot of new cars date waaaaaaay back

[Tar]

They seem to be throwing a plug on existing hybrid packages and calling them Prime. I wonder if that satisfies their requirements for EV offerings? I'm sure more stuff will come, but they seamlessly threw a Rav Prime out there and it has a gov credit attached to it's purchase and a three year waiting list right out of the floodgates. I think they put more money into hydrogen tech then EV, and rightfully so, IMO.

The brand is better then it was, I'm legit finding their design cues to be neutral to appealing range, which is a big leap from five years ago when heinous to unsightly was a better description of their offerings. I feel like my next statement will bring on some , but I even think a Camry SE (XSE) looks pretty dece, reminds me of my 2004 TL in many ways, just way more efficient.

I 100% agree... the tables keep turning. Brands get too comfortable ad become blah. Look at Ferd, did away with the STs, all cars, just make boring and the Mustang/Bronco are the only interesting vehicles. Of those two, the Mustang is a 10 year old platform and the Bronco is unobtanium.

I think TOyota got sick of everyone calling them the most boring manufacturer and they've really pulled through. They can appease loyalist/luddites with the Taco/4R, which hold true to their basic roots in a great way, run forever, go anywhere, just work, and look cool. Car enthusiasts get the Supra, 86, upcoming GR 'rolla. Even for those looking for just basic transport, they have the Prius which is, IMO, the best vehicle money can buy today for a non car enthusiast. Their CUVs are class leading, they invested in making the Rav more seemingly rugged and efficient, which seems to have paid off in the biggest segment in NA.

I actually don't mind the new Camry at all, I've driven a few. They are pretty dece.

Curious what the new Tundra ends up being like. I am on going TT V6 over V8.

The Prius needs the 208 HP 2.5L/Hybrid configuration being thrown into the Rage/. They have a new Lithium Ion battery that's lighter and fits under the seat of the Camry, and gets into Prius FE territory (52avg?) without being dangerously slow. The dealer I spoke with thinks that it will get phased out because there are so many Hybrid options, and Prius doesn't have much of a take rate anymore. I really like it as an appliance, the hatch configuration is , but it's a sorry looking little critter and is too underpowered IMO.

Yoda car enthusiast game is indeed growing stronger, the cars aren't at anything, but they have a simple formula that works. I'd absolutely love a GR86 as a third car and would enjoy owning it more than some C8/Chally or something. The small, nimble and playful vehicles are what Toyota is good at, and that's exactly what people are looking for in this political climate.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Wonder what will become of Dodge now that they can't just slap a hellcat engine in every fucking car they make and never update anything.

Stellantice or whoever you spell that new name announced a new global ev platform that they will unveil next year that will feature all kinds of new suvs and muscle cars. They spent like 12 billion on that shit or something. Kind of nuts

It's a platform PSA developed and is rolling out to FCA. Products are being RUSHED on the FCA side, I wouldn't touch one with a 40 foot pole for at least a few years. FCA has no idea how to do electrification.

[Tar]

Stellantis, Stallanus?

That's one of the joys of becoming a juggernaut, they can split that 12 billskie with a shitload of brands. I think they'll need to gut the LX/LD/LA plant and put all new shit in there if they want to redesign those vehicles. An almost 20 year run is , and all based on the S-Class chassis designed 10 to 15 years prior to that. Those are some big/heavy cars man.

Yep the good ol E front S back or whatever they frankensteined. It also had the mb key and a few one mb parts at launch.

These things had a long run… but look at toyota too, the current 4 runner basically goes back to 2005… same with Tacoma … tundra just updated but also 2007. A lot of new cars date waaaaaaay back

There will always be a take rate on these, especially for someone who wants a proper V8 RWD car and is willing to pay the price at the pumps, especially specialty models like the Hellcat, etc. However, the aging chassis can't support EV or battery assisted technology and have any kind of decent range, they are too heavy to be lower trim, cheap, utilitarian cars like an Accord/Cammie.

I fall into the lower trim/commuter buyer profile, and am personally fed up getting abysmal FE on premium priced gas (which has a 20-25% cost premium over 87) in a car that probably gets similar or better gas mileage then a Charger/300 outfitted with a lowly V6/SXT spec.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Stellantis, Stallanus?

That's one of the joys of becoming a juggernaut, they can split that 12 billskie with a shitload of brands. I think they'll need to gut the LX/LD/LA plant and put all new shit in there if they want to redesign those vehicles. An almost 20 year run is , and all based on the S-Class chassis designed 10 to 15 years prior to that. Those are some big/heavy cars man.

Yep the good ol E front S back or whatever they frankensteined. It also had the mb key and a few one mb parts at launch.

These things had a long run… but look at toyota too, the current 4 runner basically goes back to 2005… same with Tacoma … tundra just updated but also 2007. A lot of new cars date waaaaaaay back

As the 4Runner gets older, it sells more. Age is a a selling point or something for it.

These just PRINT money for the OEM, same with the LX. Hell, the JGC lasted 10 years on the MB platform and sold like crazy even still.

Which makes all the "new platform" or "all new" model launches even more If a vehicle is good and just needs some tech updates to stay relevant, that's probably all it really needs.

[Tar]

Yep the good ol E front S back or whatever they frankensteined. It also had the mb key and a few one mb parts at launch.

These things had a long run… but look at toyota too, the current 4 runner basically goes back to 2005… same with Tacoma … tundra just updated but also 2007. A lot of new cars date waaaaaaay back

As the 4Runner gets older, it sells more. Age is a a selling point or something for it.

These just PRINT money for the OEM, same with the LX. Hell, the JGC lasted 10 years on the MB platform and sold like crazy even still.

Which makes all the "new platform" or "all new" model launches even more If a vehicle is good and just needs some tech updates to stay relevant, that's probably all it really needs.

They de-rated the LX plant to run lower daily #s, then got in trouble for under supplying demand over the last two years. Chip shortages weren't too bad, but I'm sure they hit some bottom lines. I just don't think that the LX holds the same desirability as the Taco/4Runner, and SUVs in general but maybe I'm . This next year will be interesting, I know people are sitting on piles of cash, but will they keep buying these CARS? I would say that it makes sense to rework the LX plant to build a lighter newer generation of sedans, or even another SUV? at yet another SUV, but it is what it is.

[max225]

Yep the good ol E front S back or whatever they frankensteined. It also had the mb key and a few one mb parts at launch.

These things had a long run… but look at toyota too, the current 4 runner basically goes back to 2005… same with Tacoma … tundra just updated but also 2007. A lot of new cars date waaaaaaay back

As the 4Runner gets older, it sells more. Age is a a selling point or something for it.

These just PRINT money for the OEM, same with the LX. Hell, the JGC lasted 10 years on the MB platform and sold like crazy even still.

Which makes all the "new platform" or "all new" model launches even more If a vehicle is good and just needs some tech updates to stay relevant, that's probably all it really needs.

Yep once gas prices peaked it sold like shit then once they dropped into oblivion it is going back up. It’s the only BOF suv in the market at under 50k (Jeep excluded). Couple that with a shift away from anything sedan and it becomes uNiQuE since everything else is a bloated hatchback CUV.

I don’t think 120k units or so is amazing but it certainly isn’t anything to cancel anytime soon.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

As the 4Runner gets older, it sells more. Age is a a selling point or something for it.

These just PRINT money for the OEM, same with the LX. Hell, the JGC lasted 10 years on the MB platform and sold like crazy even still.

Which makes all the "new platform" or "all new" model launches even more If a vehicle is good and just needs some tech updates to stay relevant, that's probably all it really needs.

Yep once gas prices peaked it sold like shit then once they dropped into oblivion it is going back up. It’s the only BOF suv in the market at under 50k (Jeep excluded). Couple that with a shift away from anything sedan and it becomes uNiQuE since everything else is a bloated hatchback CUV.

I don’t think 120k units or so is amazing but it certainly isn’t anything to cancel anytime soon.

Considering that the new one launched during the end times and sold 20k units, then increased in volume every year up to a 140k unit peak in 2018, that's quite something. It's the exact opposite of any other product launch (volume usually decays a bit each year), but it truly is a unique vehicle and apparently there's customers that want it. This is just US sales too, add in global sales and the 4R probably pushes 150-175k units annually. Really but not sustainable because the thing must be a serious drag on CAFE for Toyota.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

Dang, AG 4R looks sweet with bronze TuRD wheels.

[D Griff]

Yep the good ol E front S back or whatever they frankensteined. It also had the mb key and a few one mb parts at launch.

These things had a long run… but look at toyota too, the current 4 runner basically goes back to 2005… same with Tacoma … tundra just updated but also 2007. A lot of new cars date waaaaaaay back

As the 4Runner gets older, it sells more. Age is a a selling point or something for it.

These just PRINT money for the OEM, same with the LX. Hell, the JGC lasted 10 years on the MB platform and sold like crazy even still.

Which makes all the "new platform" or "all new" model launches even more If a vehicle is good and just needs some tech updates to stay relevant, that's probably all it really needs.

I think sometimes updating just to update is dumb. These are fairly mature technologies that don't need to change a ton in some cases. Sure, volume models need to improve in efficiency, but that's really the only major thing that necessitates change.

[D Griff]

I 100% agree... the tables keep turning. Brands get too comfortable ad become blah. Look at Ferd, did away with the STs, all cars, just make boring and the Mustang/Bronco are the only interesting vehicles. Of those two, the Mustang is a 10 year old platform and the Bronco is unobtanium.

I think TOyota got sick of everyone calling them the most boring manufacturer and they've really pulled through. They can appease loyalist/luddites with the Taco/4R, which hold true to their basic roots in a great way, run forever, go anywhere, just work, and look cool. Car enthusiasts get the Supra, 86, upcoming GR 'rolla. Even for those looking for just basic transport, they have the Prius which is, IMO, the best vehicle money can buy today for a non car enthusiast. Their CUVs are class leading, they invested in making the Rav more seemingly rugged and efficient, which seems to have paid off in the biggest segment in NA.

I actually don't mind the new Camry at all, I've driven a few. They are pretty dece.

Curious what the new Tundra ends up being like. I am on going TT V6 over V8.

The Prius needs the 208 HP 2.5L/Hybrid configuration being thrown into the Rage/. They have a new Lithium Ion battery that's lighter and fits under the seat of the Camry, and gets into Prius FE territory (52avg?) without being dangerously slow. The dealer I spoke with thinks that it will get phased out because there are so many Hybrid options, and Prius doesn't have much of a take rate anymore. I really like it as an appliance, the hatch configuration is , but it's a sorry looking little critter and is too underpowered IMO.

Yoda car enthusiast game is indeed growing stronger, the cars aren't at anything, but they have a simple formula that works. I'd absolutely love a GR86 as a third car and would enjoy owning it more than some C8/Chally or something. The small, nimble and playful vehicles are what Toyota is good at, and that's exactly what people are looking for in this political climate.

Prius is like 20% more efficient than that , not insignificant. I think they get like 70 MPG real world.

I honestly kind of want a Prius weirdly. I would be pretty down with that plus an 86. The trouble is, even a pretty shitty Prius used is like $20K now... not really something I'd get into from my Beemah unless I could also pocket quite a bit of cashola.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

The Prius needs the 208 HP 2.5L/Hybrid configuration being thrown into the Rage/. They have a new Lithium Ion battery that's lighter and fits under the seat of the Camry, and gets into Prius FE territory (52avg?) without being dangerously slow. The dealer I spoke with thinks that it will get phased out because there are so many Hybrid options, and Prius doesn't have much of a take rate anymore. I really like it as an appliance, the hatch configuration is , but it's a sorry looking little critter and is too underpowered IMO.

Yoda car enthusiast game is indeed growing stronger, the cars aren't at anything, but they have a simple formula that works. I'd absolutely love a GR86 as a third car and would enjoy owning it more than some C8/Chally or something. The small, nimble and playful vehicles are what Toyota is good at, and that's exactly what people are looking for in this political climate.

Prius is like 20% more efficient than that , not insignificant. I think they get like 70 MPG real world.

I honestly kind of want a Prius weirdly. I would be pretty down with that plus an 86. The trouble is, even a pretty shitty Prius used is like $20K now... not really something I'd get into from my Beemah unless I could also pocket quite a bit of cashola.

The ONLY way a car transaction make sense right now is offing used for new. And whatever new thing has to be at MSRP, which even then is overpaying in most cases.

[D Griff]

Prius is like 20% more efficient than that , not insignificant. I think they get like 70 MPG real world.

I honestly kind of want a Prius weirdly. I would be pretty down with that plus an 86. The trouble is, even a pretty shitty Prius used is like $20K now... not really something I'd get into from my Beemah unless I could also pocket quite a bit of cashola.

The ONLY way a car transaction make sense right now is offing used for new. And whatever new thing has to be at MSRP, which even then is overpaying in most cases.

If I could get a cheap, really efficient vehicle for sub $10K in dece condition, I think I would (Mazderp3, Prius, etc). I could then pocket $12K+ from the Beemah and just wait it out for an 86 using the shitbox car. Unfortunately, to get a Mazda3 or Prius for less than my Beemah, I'd be into something with 3X the mileage... not really interested in going from a nice sporty Beemah to some shitty 120k mile Prius to put $5K of quickly depreciating dollars in the bank.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

The ONLY way a car transaction make sense right now is offing used for new. And whatever new thing has to be at MSRP, which even then is overpaying in most cases.

If I could get a cheap, really efficient vehicle for sub $10K in dece condition, I think I would (Mazderp3, Prius, etc). I could then pocket $12K+ from the Beemah and just wait it out for an 86 using the shitbox car. Unfortunately, to get a Mazda3 or Prius for less than my Beemah, I'd be into something with 3X the mileage... not really interested in going from a nice sporty Beemah to some shitty 120k mile Prius to put $5K of quickly depreciating dollars in the bank.

I've looked all over for a shitty used "bridge" vehicle, they're so ridiculously overpriced that it just makes zero sense. Any profit you'd get from selling your current car would go up in flames when the market corrects and shit car values go back down where they belong.

[max225]

The ONLY way a car transaction make sense right now is offing used for new. And whatever new thing has to be at MSRP, which even then is overpaying in most cases.

If I could get a cheap, really efficient vehicle for sub $10K in dece condition, I think I would (Mazderp3, Prius, etc). I could then pocket $12K+ from the Beemah and just wait it out for an 86 using the shitbox car. Unfortunately, to get a Mazda3 or Prius for less than my Beemah, I'd be into something with 3X the mileage... not really interested in going from a nice sporty Beemah to some shitty 120k mile Prius to put $5K of quickly depreciating dollars in the bank.

Makes no sense. You sort of have a “disposable” car as is now… and nothing sub 10k is worth while unless you’re willing to shitbox.

[Desertbreh]

If I could get a cheap, really efficient vehicle for sub $10K in dece condition, I think I would (Mazderp3, Prius, etc). I could then pocket $12K+ from the Beemah and just wait it out for an 86 using the shitbox car. Unfortunately, to get a Mazda3 or Prius for less than my Beemah, I'd be into something with 3X the mileage... not really interested in going from a nice sporty Beemah to some shitty 120k mile Prius to put $5K of quickly depreciating dollars in the bank.

Makes no sense. You sort of have a “disposable” car as is now… and nothing sub 10k is worth while unless you’re willing to shitbox.

There is nothing disposable about his car. You've been hanging out with too many brogrammers.

[max225]

Makes no sense. You sort of have a “disposable” car as is now… and nothing sub 10k is worth while unless you’re willing to shitbox.

There is nothing disposable about his car. You've been hanging out with too many brogrammers.

2 generation old bmws are normally at the bottom of the depreciation curve. Current blip aside it’s the perfect car to enjoy and drive into the ground by DDing and parking it in the mean streets of Charlotte.

That’s the point. And yes it is disposable as is almost every car currently on sale today. No point in pretending it’s something it isn’t.

[D Griff]

Makes no sense. You sort of have a “disposable” car as is now… and nothing sub 10k is worth while unless you’re willing to shitbox.

There is nothing disposable about his car. You've been hanging out with too many brogrammers.

I mean... I bought it round one for $21K, round 2 for $16.5K. It is worth the same amount as an eight year old Prius or Mazda3 from what I can tell, so he is kind of right.

It is kind of a thing in that it is still somehow fairly worthless despite being a pretty solid car with low miles in virtually like-new condition. Meanwhile a GTI with the same mileage is somehow worth $10K more even though it's worse, a FiST with similar mileage is worth $5K more... this is why I am round two-ing it in this thing.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

There is nothing disposable about his car. You've been hanging out with too many brogrammers.

I mean... I bought it round one for $21K, round 2 for $16.5K. It is worth the same amount as an eight year old Prius or Mazda3 from what I can tell, so he is kind of right.

It is kind of a thing in that it is still somehow fairly worthless despite being a pretty solid car with low miles in virtually like-new condition. Meanwhile a GTI with the same mileage is somehow worth $10K more even though it's worse, a FiST with similar mileage is worth $5K more... this is why I am round two-ing it in this thing.

It's because it's not really a generally regarded enthusiast car. YOUR spec is, but the vast majority are just German Camrys, and that drives the value down. Yours is probably worth more than others, but not a ton more.

The current GTI, ST, etc values are but they're not really available new in any way (GTI is stuck in generation transition) right now, so that boosts value as well. Anyone buying one of those cars right now is an idiot.

[max225]

There is nothing disposable about his car. You've been hanging out with too many brogrammers.

I mean... I bought it round one for $21K, round 2 for $16.5K. It is worth the same amount as an eight year old Prius or Mazda3 from what I can tell, so he is kind of right.

It is kind of a thing in that it is still somehow fairly worthless despite being a pretty solid car with low miles in virtually like-new condition. Meanwhile a GTI with the same mileage is somehow worth $10K more even though it's worse, a FiST with similar mileage is worth $5K more... this is why I am round two-ing it in this thing.

Exactly it makes sense to just use it as a nice comfortable daily with a nice Badge. While yours is certainly near or at spec with the nicer brakes + FakeSport package + Blue. There are certainly 1 million literally... other F30s out there.

[ChrisoftheNorth]

on the 4R as of now has "no updates", still coming in "next few weeks"

Which is even more after yesterday...

Got our first real snow of the season ~9" total. I had to take the Cucktrek out yesterday in the midst of the storm for a Home Depot run, and holy hell are the tires absolute garbage in the snow. It's embarrassingly bad.

First, I almost slid off our driveway doing 5mph, which is a 15ish foot drop straight down. ABS kicked in and instead of slowing and turning, it plowed straight. The right thing to do is let off the brakes and the front wheels will bite to turn, which is counter intuitive when you're plowing straight for a 15 foot drop. Fortunately, it's reactionary for me. I've never encountered a vehicle plow like that at such a low speed.

Then, I slid through a stop light on ABS doing 10mph and allowing probably a few hundred feet to gradually slow down. It just refused to stop. Fortunately, other cars couldn't GO that quickly because of snow/ice, dodged a bullet there.

THEN almost hit a parked car while parking at HD, again doing 5mph the abs kicked in and the thing just plowed...fortunately like before I knew to let off the brakes to let is steer, which it did, but most people would have smacked the other car.

BUT incredibly, the thing is an absolute beast accelerating. We have a steep hill into our sub, and the thing just climbed up like a goat. ZERO traction, but somehow it just walks up anything. Ditto for taking off from a stoplight on ice. What I've been saying for YEARS in regards to "needing AWD" rings so true...AWD helps you go, but does nothing for turning or stopping. TIRES are more important than any drivetrain combo.

I'm really glad I drove it in the snow before the wife. She very likely would have wrecked driving yesterday including in our own damned driveway. That thing needs proper tires ASAP, which sucks because I want to off it, but I really hope I don't wreck it first. It's a challenge to drive right now.

Fucking 4R

[coogles]

I mean... I bought it round one for $21K, round 2 for $16.5K. It is worth the same amount as an eight year old Prius or Mazda3 from what I can tell, so he is kind of right.

It is kind of a thing in that it is still somehow fairly worthless despite being a pretty solid car with low miles in virtually like-new condition. Meanwhile a GTI with the same mileage is somehow worth $10K more even though it's worse, a FiST with similar mileage is worth $5K more... this is why I am round two-ing it in this thing.

It's because it's not really a generally regarded enthusiast car. YOUR spec is, but the vast majority are just German Camrys, and that drives the value down. Yours is probably worth more than others, but not a ton more.

The current GTI, ST, etc values are but they're not really available new in any way (GTI is stuck in generation transition) right now, so that boosts value as well. Anyone buying one of those cars right now is an idiot.

I'm starting to question whether or not GTI values will really start coming down now seeing the prices for the MK8s. $36k for an SE, $40k for an Autobahn...that's going to inflate MK7 values long-term, IMO, until the big discounts really start pouring in. Given today's climate we're some time off from that happening.

I agree on Griff's car, doe. It's probably a better car than a MK7 GTI but it's worth less. A quick nationwide cars.com search for a manual, RWD 328i or 330i turns up almost nothing. Very few 335is or 340is, either. You'd think his car would be worth some coin given how rare it is, but to your point, I think few enthusiasts think of them as an option and the values are more tied in with the German Camry vibe of the rest of the F30s rolling around out there. The only models that have seen big price jumps are the M3s.

[max225]

Would a 4R be better in the snow tho ? Internetz says cucktrecks are the best in those conditions. Due to size/weight/awd